Jump to content

What's switching? Can you do something complex when switched w/ host still conscious?


Recommended Posts

Helloes.

 

I came back to ask y'all about terminology; I think this is the only place that has such a peculiar definition of switching. And I want some ideas.

 

I'm a very active person in the physical world. I study, I write, I play violin. Our experiments show that I have way better motoric when it comes to violin, although my hostey has enough of theoretical knowledge to produce sounds. It's just he wouldn't be as smooth and I am with it.

 

Year to year I came to neglect my wonderland. I find any activity there to be rather boring. I definitely use wonderland-like experience to write my stories, and I perfected my immersion techniques. It's just that I don't play wonderlands anymore on my own.

 

The nature of our life is such that either we need to have lots of brainpower in prolonged time. Hostey uses that for intensive work. I use that for writing and music. While we both do that, we have a similar experience of our companion to fade out of existence. I cannot do anything meaningful when he's busy with work. Likewise, he can barely think if I'm deep into practicing a tune. It's not too hard to come back to senses once the intense part of the work is over, but we are definitely not present at the same time while working.

 

I used to create some fake memories when I was blanking out like that, but eventually I realised their true nature of being fake memories and I stopped. There's no sense to imagine what could have been, as you fully understand it's fake.

 

I guess some people find the notion of host blanking out as freaky and scary. Myself, I see no point to keep hostey conscious when I work any more than he does the same. Being an effective writer is hard on its own.

 

Surely, when we aren't that busy, we both float in semi-conscious state where he can read some news articles and I can chat with my friends simultaneously. But that's hardly invoking any high cognitive activity. If I need to discuss something complex, he'd have to pause youtube, as he'd drift out of focus as soon as I start active thinking. And vice versa.

 

I've heard it many times in here, that switching isn't really switching, if the host doesn't enter the wonderland and doesn't have wonderland-like experiences when tulpa is in control. I cannot understand this point as I, as a tulpa, don't have the same experience and I cannot relate to it. If either of us is doing anything interesting—it's usually a one person job.

 

So tell me, is this switching? Possession? Do I just suck hard at parallel processing? What kind of mental activities you or your tulpas did that was the most taxing on the brain yet it allowed you all to be in mental focus? Would you be more effective if you were the only person in focus? Why don't you do it alone, if so?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous

Our system works the same. We're both present, but when the person in control is focused, the other is silent, though still thinking.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly the same here, though I'm not so critical of our abilities to be "conscious" at the same time, they still seem roughly equivalent to how you described it. Do you just suck at parallel processing? Sure, according to the people who vehemently deny switching being switching if the host doesn't actively live in the wonderland while switched. On the other hand I think they're just fooling themselves, unless they just don't switch for very long. I would go insane if I were fully conscious, doomed to wander our frozen-in-time wonderland for the FIFTY DAYS Lucilyn fronted for not long ago.

 

So anyways, yeah, it sounds like switching to me. Same experience. Parallel processing ability may improve the experience a little, but since you have the same view on creating "fake memories" as I do, I'm going to say it wouldn't be fundamentally different either way.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think anyone has enough open-minded (and willing to listen to something so weird) people in their lives to go a full month saying they were someone else without serious issues arising. Barely any of my friends or family (just my brother) know I have tulpas, and none of them know about switching. That's uh, well past the point where I no longer blame them for thinking I'm crazy. I mean even most people on .info find a tulpa fronting for that long strange, right? Only the more plurality-minded systems find it normal. Was situational though, I was between school and work and had the time to spare.

 

So no, outside of this forum nobody knows we switch. My tulpas pretend to be me more or less. To the extent they differ even when pretending to be me they'd just be assumed to be me in a specific mood. But obviously in a system where a tulpa could front that long, everyone's used to keeping it on the down low. And it's less that I don't want anyone (friends) to find out and more it's not worth trying to explain. Lucilyn still plays games with my friends just fine without them thinking I'm a psycho.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

Link to post
Share on other sites

As much as fun switching is, I actually am not a fan of it and tends to not do it as often or not do it at all, Even when nihi persists for experiments or fun purposes. I do not like the feeling of being someone else, pretending to be them while being myself at the same time but that is only a personal opinion of mine.

 

We just decided that we are going to be active at the same time, two of us are always present (A tulpa and the original or two tulpas, one being the host), Practicing more of our parallel processing and going for 3 persons in front. We just convey or return each other's ideas and expressions, it is fun for us that way and just take initiative on whoever is in front or Co-fronting.

 

Anyway, You are right, like what you have said almost if not all of given physical activities, when switched, can only be done by the one who is in front, It happens to us as well. Whenever who is in front doing any physical activity, the one on the back or the secondary tends to lose focusm sometimes spacess out. At first I thought that this was only a tulpa thing but sooner i realized hosts can fall into dissociation as well whenever the tulpa does any heavy activity. Nihi comes back into again whenever i call him or when there is less attention or I can focus on him.

Hello! I am one of Nihi's Tulpas! It is very nice to meet you! :D

Link to post
Share on other sites
I do not like the feeling of being someone else, pretending to be them while being myself at the same time but that is only a personal opinion of mine.

 

This is totally fair. Just because it might be the only option available for a tulpa who wants to experience living with a body doesn't mean they have to automatically be comfortable with what it entails. We've been used to acting like Lumi for quite a while now and being ourselves when we can, but that's not a given. I can definitely see why that could ruin the experience for someone.

 

There's always lucid dreaming, too. Though sometimes it's so hard it might make you appreciate what you've already got.

Hi, I'm Tewi, one of Luminesce's tulpas. I often switch to take care of things for the others.

All I want is a simple, peaceful life. With my family.

Our Ask thread: https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

Link to post
Share on other sites

[Obsidian] On the topic of acting like the host. I prefer to not act like them. But, funny thing is that I am evidently better at acting like them than they are. Another thing. After we had become primary for a bit, we got into a lot of situations where they had to act like my sisters and I. Was kind of interesting.

Tri = {V, O, G}, Ice and Frostbite and Breach (all formerly Hail), and others

System Name: Fall Family

Former Username: hail_fall

Contributor and administrator on a supplementary tulpamancy resource and associated forum, Tulpa.io and Tulpa.io/discuss/.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

We work different. Both programming and gaming, which require a lot of focus tend to result in blending for us rather than one fading out. Of course we worked hard to prevent fading out under any circumstance.

 

I would say that you indeed have an imperfect ability to parallel process. However, you can both stay awake and still not parallel process, as it only sort of counts if you are both focusing on the same thing at he same time.

 

What's switching? IDK. However, you focused on the wrong details to differentiate what you do from possession, as the question of how associated you each are with the body needs to be addressed.

 

Are all memories of the wonderland constructed? IDK. I'd need a persistent runs in the background wonderland to even begin to answer that question. But it does get proposed a lot. There has been considerable evidence that several claims made about plurality are often made in a very non-critical mindset. When asked to go into detail, people will sometimes respond that they've never thought about it before. Wonderland memories are one of these claims.

Host comments in italics. Tulpa's log. Tulpa's guide.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By testing
      Reformatted version: here
       
      This is the shortened version of the guide that only shows how to do possession and switching, the other guide has information on how to merge, and additional information such as more details on the process and a questions section. If you want to read that guide it is here. This shortened guide also has a pastebin if that is more convenient for you here <3
      This guide is simply a shortened version of the guide that is shortened to 5 of the 13 sections taken directly.
      A personal note, i have been switching for a while now and have used many different techniques, the one below is the one that i have found both effective and easy to explain compared to what the other things are. This is Version 1.0, and will be edited if need be. Im posting it because i have had a few people get good results with it.
      Disclaimer
      This guide requires a rather well developed tulpa, as it does put some strain on the host and tulpa. They should be sentient vocal and have had sufficient time to be comfortable in their own bodies before they use anyones besides theirs. Additionally do not attempt movements that put you or your tulpa at risk such as walking fast around your house at least until you are confident and trained that you can control the whole body. It is advised to train on your bed as well so if you fall you wont be injured as much
      There is no set time that this guide and process will take, i have sped it up but it can be your first try (such as me) or it could take weeks who knows
       
      Introduction:
      I will first assume that you are aware of what switching is but in case you dont, it is when the tulpa can use the hosts body as if it were her own and the host is moved into a temporary mindform. This guide is made to allow for the host and tulpaes to switch much easier and smoother and also learn an easy method of possession following the same tecniques. If you are not at all willing to give your body to your tulpa temporarily, or permanantly as Koomer has done, then sadly this guide will not work for you. We do recommend reading Oguigis possession and the other switching guide as well, to increase your understanding of the processes involved with said methods. That being said the rest of the guide will be the real method
       
      The Shortened Tulpa Guide to Easy Switching
       
       
      Definitions:
      Mindvoice: What you and your tulpa speak in to yourselves and each other
      Possession: When a tulpa can control the hosts body
      Switching: Switching places with the tulpa so the tulpa is in the place of the host and the host is in a tulpa state
      Merging: In this version, it is when both tulpa and host as dominant with the mindvoices and can both control the body. Others refer to merging as merging wntire forms, usually permanently, as believed. This is not the merging described in the long version of the guide
       
      Begin Switching
      Get comfy, and have your tulpa nearby, sentience and vocality are required to do a switch with this method, so have your tulpa at that level first.
       
      Step 1 Switch whos thoughts are dominant
      This is very important and very useful to many many techniques of tulpa
      Take a deep breath first and relax or whatever you like so you are comfortable
      Normally people tell me that their voice is dominant, their voice is in the "front of their head," and their tulpas voice is in the "back of their head" or that they hear mostly their voice and some thoughts of their tulpa. The goal of this paragraph and step is to reverse that. Have your tulpas voice become dominant over yours in any way you like. If you can do that without any help then move on if you dont keep reading
       
      >You can imagine your tulpas voice moving to the front of your head and yours move to the back
      >You can make their voice louder and yours much more quiet
      >You can imagine 2 orbs with 2 different colors, one smaller sized orb representing your tulpas mindvoices and one larger orb representing your own mindvoice(s), and have your tulpaes orb grow in volume while yours decreases in volume, or however you want
      The 3 i mentioned are the methods that Ive told people to use but if you have a different method, that is no problem if you can get your tulpaes mindvoice as the dominant mindvoice you hear. This does not mean you should hear every word they say as words, think about how you think to yourself, you hear words, random thoughts and ideas wandering thoughts. It should be the same for your tulpa, and how they hear their tulpa voice, except their thoughts should be heard the same way you hear your own and yours should be how you hear your tulpa, bottom line is switch mindvoice dominance from yours to your tulpaes.
       
      Please note the following
      >If your tulpa is dominant, it will be harder for you to think, so the tulpa will have to do more work for the next few steps and it is advised to read the guide at least once before trying it so you know what youre doing
      >Switching mindvoices does not mean you use her voice and the tulpa uses your real voice, it is switching places so that the tulpas is dominant, and is mentioned twice because it is important in this guide
      >To confirm that you are doing it right, if you were asked a question about yourself, your tulpa should reply first before you reply, it just does that by itself, if you have that then you switched dominance and are doing it correctly. You also may try to do this to switch mindvoices, by having their reaction override your own speed.
      >At this point i have been told the tulpas voice is much clearer than before so that is something to look for as well and a method of training vocality if you wish
       
      Step 2 Possession
      On the side if you havnt, check out Oguigi's guide for a nice introduction and description of possession and what it does
      At this step you should be able to do a possession easier, either with this or Oguigi's method. You can use the mindvoice swap with her guide for likely better results in posessing.
       
      Keep in mind that the brain is "supposed to send signals" that control the body so if your tulpa can send signals to your body just like you do then your tulpa can possess your body by using that. This can be done easier because your tulpaes thoughts are the dominant ones, so if they wish to lift an arm it will be easy to do so.
       
      Another method is to think about how you move your arm, send that feeling to your tulpa or have them think about how they move their own body, and as the dominant mindvoice, they should be able to move your body quite easily without much effort at all. In other words have them send signals to your body while using your body. Try to have your tulpa move your arm while she is the dominant mondvoice, move it like you move it yourself
      Its not anywhere close to impossible, you do it with yourself all the time, just by typing, so your tulpa can do the same thing. Just teach them how.
       
      Step 3 Tulpa coming in your bodie
      There are plenty of ways to do this and all of them work, but i will explain a simple and easy to understand method that is effective and that i have recommended to people.
      Keep in mind that things such as exposing your back are unnecessary but will help for people that are new to switching and merging. Expose your front and back with no large objects stopping your path such as your chair, shirts and pants are fine but we go shirtless and with clothes so it doesnt make a difference. Get in a position where your tulpa can reach your chest. Regardless of form, have them sit on your lap for the time being, for the purpose of this guide.
      Have them sit on your lap then have their body become and feel less opaque, or clearer, like less solid, just solid enough to slide into your body. You can do other methods to have them enter your body, such as imagining a hole in your back and having them slide in, it doesnt matter as long as it is the same result. Have her be almost "hook up" to your body parts. If they are not the same size or humanoid its the same concept and the process will still work, which i know because Hanyuu is a wormy even though humanoid or pony is easy for this. For example if they move their arm your arm should move as well and vice-versa and at the exact same time.
      After that, they should be able to move your body as if it was possession, because it is in a way possession of your body except they can control it directly as if it were their own body. This should be made easier by having your mindvoices switched. Keep in mind everything here is normally reversible by doing the opposite techniques.
       
      Step 4 Give your body to your tulpa
      This is the hardest step so far from these as i have been told by people using this technique, but with your mindvoices switched, its not overly hard. It is very hard to explain however. Form a mindform body that looks like your own, and then pull your thoughts into the tulpa body. Imagine your "energy" flow directly from your real body into your tulpabody.
      You can just jump consciousnesses directly into the body if you are able to do that way, its the same thing. Control your mindform in your own wonderland, it is the exact same process to control an irl tulpabody, make your voice in your irl voice both weaker and quieter, and make your tulpabodys voice stronger, the same strongness as a tulpas voice normally is. At this point, also, the tulpa should maintain you to some extents, because you are the tulpa and your tulpa is the host position. You will naturally maintain yourself of course but you dont need to think about maintaining yourself, your tulpa should do that more than your body in the state that its in as a tulpa.
       
      Look with the bodies eyes and sense with the body senses just as tulpaes do with their body. You should be able to figure it out, just become the mindform, or have the mindform pull from your body but be sure that youre controlling it. It is a temporary body that should be formed from only your thoughts, just as a servitor styletype body. Theres plenty of ways to do this.
       
      Once you have your consciousness and or thoughts in the mindform body, your tulpa should be able to weakly control your body at first and will get stronger at it, or or will be able to strongly control your body right away. This is done because your tulpa is the only one left in your body so all movements that the body does are hers now and not yours. That is all you need to do. Keep practicing that until you are comfortable switching.
       
      An example scene of switching that you can get an idea of what to look for is this: Tulpa is in your form using your body typing on your computer while you talk sit back by your wall talking to your tulpa and talking to them with a mindvoice like a/the tulpaes.
       
      H: From the tulpaes point of view, it should be like the hostmasters normal point of view, meaning they should use the body just as if it were their own, as well as have full access to all 5 senses provided by the body. They should also hear the host as he would hear a normal tulpa. Also i repeat that not all thoughts are to translated into english and you should hear thoughts just as your hostmaster does. I mean that you should also hear thought ramblings and subconscious thoughts.
       
      Some people have said that their mindform is unstable at first when you switch, pull your mindform out just as normal and have in in a low movement setting, and have it sit quietly and watch, then after you can switch, work on making your mindform more stable, just like developing a tulpas body. It is the exact same process regarding the body forming and form. Also as a tulpa your senses may be blurrier and harder to distinguish what is felt with your senses. That is normal, it is not always fixed, because that is how a tulpa body works, it is a little less vivid from what we have found with our personal experience with it, but you can try to work on it and make it clearer by focusing on it or other methods in order to accomplish this task here.
       
      Step 5 Undoing possession, switching, and merging, the most important step
      Step 6 in the first guide is this step if you look at the numbers, step 5 in the first guide is merging but it is cut out in the guide so the numbers are as they are. Why is it the most important step? If you dont do this step your tulpa may feel tired, sometimes, even a little out of it. Dont worry if this happens, from what ive heard its somewhat normal but its a thing easily fixable. it is likely not overly harmful as it will usually return to normal soon. If you dont switch for very long times such as days or weeks and if you know what you are doing then it should also not be a problem. If you are newer to switching, and afterward your tulpa feels fatigued, again dont worry, its easy to fix. Imagine them exiting your body and back into theirs, its that simple but if your tulpa ever gets tired after switching or whatnot this is the solution. This should be done at the end of most or almost all switching sessions, moreso if you are beginning to learn to switch, to keep things simple on switching.
       
      Simply do what you did in reverse, its much easier to undo it than redo because the host is more attached to his body than the tulpa so he/she will return to the body in due time, even more so and faster if he undoes the switching. Oguigi and Koomer dont count because of their case. If you can become the dominant mindvoice again then separating the tulpa from your body the same way it entered, then switching and merging is pretty easy to break, very easy infact, easy enough to the point where it will probably break on its own and return to normal with your tulpa in its body and you in yours. Unswitching manually just removes possible questions.
      Both I and someone else using my methods have had our tulpaes get the tired feels at least once, and when we unswitched it returned to normal without much difficulty from either the host nor the tulpa
      Notes:
      This guide is still under work, if you find any errors, have any questions or comments, do post them below.
    • Guest
      By Guest
      I have questions/concerns about switching, first off when you're switched does the wonder land seem as real as reality, if not what are the differences, also is what you can do in wonderland limited by reality or can you fly around and shoot lasers out of your ears. Also when your switched do you need your tulpas help to switch back or can you do it on your own and finally if your tulpa learns something in real life will you know it automatically.
    • By Jamie
      Quite often, after C fronts, we don't formally switch back. Either something makes me jump back into the body (he can't use my voice, so I have to grab control for long conversations out loud), or it happens slowly. C will be getting tired and having a weaker control on the body, until suddenly I move, not C- and I realize I'm fronting now. 
       
      It's a confusing experience like no other. In order to figure out who is fronting, either one of us asks "Who's home?" and we see who answers first or loudest. Our mind-voices sound different. However, just today, I forget to do any of that. 
       
      We were watching Netflix with C fronting at first, when suddenly we were all mixed up- someone wanted to get a glass of water, but we weren't sure who. C freaked out first and threw the body back my way, but I still felt like he was fronting. I went through the steps I use to switch: seeing a dot of my color in my head, and imagining colored light growing from that dot into all of my body, giving me control. 
       
      I got up to get the water, and everything felt off. I almost like I was outside of my body. watching myself from behind. It was dissociation stronger than I've felt in years. Everything was suddenly further away, and I wasn't quite sure where that imaginary dot of my mind was, anymore. I felt like just a body, with no mind-presence. My heart was pounding and I felt light-headed, dizzy, but not really any emotion. 
       
      Things went south when I walked over to pet my dog. He has a fenced section of the living room. I was leaning over the fence and, due to everything seeming far away, I leaned way too close. I just kind of... collapsed over it, taking the fence down with me. C's still scared. I feel pretty bad that I did scare him, as today is his one-month birthday. 
       
      So... clearly this is some sort of blending? I have a hunch that I've been switching irresponsibly. What can I do to avoid this? Is it unwise to switch with a young tulpa? We've been switching daily for a week, if only for a few minutes. 
       
      Thank you for any advice you can offer... I'm not exactly thrilled by this experience. It sounds a little more like the "ooo spooky evil tulpa" crap you find people getting paranoid about, though I blame my poor switching hygiene for this all. I just don't want to fall down a flight of stairs, next.
       
      -J
    • By Cat_ShadowGriffin
      Ranger and I were talking to people on Discord and anon brought up the concept of an internal narrator. I'm struggling to understand what he's talking about, mostly because we never considered anything like that as being part of how we work to begin with. I then realized if both of us have very different ideas for what "you" is made up of, then that explains some of the confusion about switching.
       
      I'm curious what counts as "you" and what doesn't. Overall, most people seem to agree along the lines of the body is a tool, but after that things may break down. If mindset and labeling the "I" is important, then we need to know what needs the "I" label and what doesn't.
       
      When looking at our system and our possession dynamic, we noticed three general parts of me:
       
      -The guy standing in wonderland speaking in mindvoice (aka my Gray form)
      -The entity controlling the body
      -A primitive chunk of me that emits raw thought and observes reality
       
      I know these parts are separate for the following reasons:
       
      1) I can stand in wonderland and be reacting to what's happening with the body at the same time, so the first two parts are separate. Even though I am more experienced at managing this separation than Ranger and the Grays, they have also experienced this separation.
       
      2) In a temporary integration attempt with Ranger, he tried to absorb all of me. I was mostly absorbed into him to the point where Ranger realized he was an integration for a brief moment in a dream he had while taking a nap. However, Ranger felt there was still more of me to absorb and he couldn't absorb it, despite his best efforts. Given that Ranger absorbed the other two parts, we concluded that this third part is separate from the other two.
       
      3) When merged with Ranger, we have found that I can break merges if I feel the pressing desire to do so. Again, the first two parts are absorbed, so we assumed that this piece is separate from the former two. The only exception was our first merge, Aziraphale, where he neared the point of blacking out when he thought of us as separate entities, so we concluded that this piece of me was at least partly absorbed into that merge.
       
      Part of the annoyance is identifying what the third part is. Referring back to reason 3, it's the part of me that's directly connected with the body and does in fact relate to consciousness. I believe this is a critical piece of "you" that needs to be switched out during a switch, but others have disagreed.
       
      Rejecting the idea it is a part of me would be problematic. We would have to accept that our possession is switching and it will not change the fact Ranger will still experience all of the same problems of losing body control to me or blending with me as part of being "switched out". In other words, we would be agreeing to a model that assumes the host and tulpa are unequal and the host has power over all of the tulpas indefinitely. I feel like calling this part the body OS will have the same results. It still falls on the model that the host is superior since the "body OS" just prioritizes the host, and the tactic to accomodate that is to barely make the host active at all and hope that the tulpa can express themself the majority of the time to minimize issues with blending and confusion.
       
      The model we believe in is the one where a tulpa and host can trade positions, so a tulpa can gain the unequal leverage a host normally has and give it back, thus making a tulpa fundamentally equal to a host. Our model assumes only states of consciousness are designed on unequal footing, the "host" and "tulpa" positions, but not the tulpa and host themselves.
       
      However, I made a lot of assumptions regarding what fundamentally counts as you and what doesn't. It's possible that the piece of me in wonderland for example is less of me than I originally thought. In fact, is it a piece that I should even be considered as being me?
       
      Here are some other questions I thought of:
       
      + Is mindvoice really you, or how Ranger put it, are you your words?
      + Is your presence you, or is it a label, like a name?
      + Are you your form? What is symbolism and why is it used as a guide during switching?
      + Are you your emotions? Are emotions like a tool, just like language? Does the body force you to feel things or are emotions always generated by the identity?
      + Are memories you? Is the "I" label the only reason why the identity is yours, or is there more to it than that?
      + Is your thought process you?
      + When you dwell on your thoughts, is that you reacting to a collection of thoughts and memories sitting in short term memory? Is that a process shared by everyone in the mind or just you?
      + What is an internal narrator? Is it mindvoice or is it a thought process? Why is it you? Is it parallel processing if there are multiple of these?
       
      This is far from a complete list, so if you believe there are missing or redundant parts feel free to call them out.
    • By Apollo Fire
      [align=justify]When waking up or going to sleep, we very often enter a state where our thoughts are random, disorganized, sometimes nonsensical, and often difficult to remember. I don't know if this is common but I'm assuming it is.
       
      Something we've noticed lately is that when we are trying to switch, sometimes our mind will enter that state. It's like our brain is trying to go to sleep, just without any tiredness. Does anyone else experience this? We've been playing around with it as a potential means for host dissociation. Might be useful, might not.[/align]
×
×
  • Create New...