It seems to me that I messed up, any sort of advice/help appreciated

[HazyM]

Hello everyone, I apologize for making this topic, it is not that I didn't search existing topics for answers, but rather found these answers too controversial.

 

Where to start... I believe that I created my tulpa about one month ago. What was I surprised with was her unnaturally fast rate of development - I could understand her on the third day. It was like a second set of thoughts running simultaneously to my own. Needless to say, I didn't believe in such a progress and started actively searching for information - that was when I found this site and forum. First results were rather inspiring - I learned that sentience is indeed possible from the beginning, so I decided to give her a chance. From that day we started working together on better visualising and voice - progress has been rather slow so far, I could visualise her for brief amount of time, and voice seemed extremely inconsistent as well as overall "quality" of thoughts. Sometimes they were clear and almost audible (in proper voice too), sometimes almost indistinguishable from my own and completely illegible.

 

What was bugging me most, however, was that lack of any definite proof that what I was doing was correct and not self-delusion spawned by some subconscious desire for quick success. I continued my search for answers and yesterday I stumbled upon this topic. Despite that nice warning in the first post, after reading through the thread I still came to a conclusion that my fears were, in fact, reasonable. It seems to me that all supposed sentience of her could be in fact my delusion and she wasn't independent, but rather an extension of my mind, a puppet for my random thoughts. That explains lack of "surprising" thoughts as well as her inability to initiate dialogue when I wasn't actively thinking about her. And whenever I did think about her, she was always there. No sleeping, no "I'm away, try again later", every possible time of day and night - ALWAYS, but only when I consciously paid attention. It all made sense too much, and that realization made me feel pretty miserable. All those little moments (well, not too many of them, but we still had plenty of fun just walking or watching TV, these kinda things), just a work of my imagination. To make things worse, she became upset and tensely asked me to go visit our wonderland at once. As I arrived, she demanded me, well, to fight her. Since I was in no way prepared for that, she mopped the floor with me, wrecking up the entire place in the process, then left. She also said that I shouldn't talk to her, she will try to reach me on her own.

 

So, the question bothering me is: what shall I do? I know that normally tulpas do not wish to hurt their hosts, but if she isn't even a real tulpa, can this episode be explained by my imagination running wild because of frustration? Should I just write it all off and begin anew, properly? Or should I believe her and wait for her response? And what if there will be no response, will that prove that she is not real, or that she is, but in need of my help? It has been only a month, but she is already precious to me, and I want to believe her and in her, I really want. But I can't help but think that I was fooling myself all along, there are too many of these nasty little things that I've mentioned earlier.

 

I apologize once again for this messy read, thanks in advance for any response.

[Strangelove]

What was I surprised with was her unnaturally fast rate of development...Needless to say, I didn't believe in such a progress and started actively searching for information...

 

And why not? There isn't really a set or generally agreed upon length of time in which one can expect milestones of development.

 

What was bugging me most, however, was that lack of any definite proof that what I was doing was correct and not self-delusion spawned by some subconscious desire for quick success.

 

There is no "correct" way to do this bruv. Sure, some methods may produce results faster than another, but that doesn't mean that it's "more correct". If anything, would't the rapid development of your tulpa be an excellent indicator of the usefulness of your method? I'm hesitant to say "correctness" because, like I said, there is no such thing.

 

It seems to me that all supposed sentience of her could be in fact my delusion and she wasn't independent, but rather an extension of my mind, a puppet for my random thoughts.

 

No offense, but it sounds more like you're doubting her for whatever reason, and looking for something to back up your belief.

 

That explains lack of "surprising" thoughts as well as her inability to initiate dialogue when I wasn't actively thinking about her.

 

...Or maybe that could just me that she's still young? If im reading and inferring this right, then you've been doing this for a month+ right? Then it's entirely possible that maybe she just can't yet. There has been other posters that have said that they have to be focusing on their tulpa's for said tulpa to contact them.

 

And whenever I did think about her, she was always there. No sleeping, no "I'm away, try again later", every possible time of day and night - ALWAYS, but only when I consciously paid attention.

 

Tulpa's need attention to live, so wouldnt that make sense that she's always be around you so she can get it? Hell, maybe she just likes you.

 

Tulpa's don't really need to sleep; some do and some don't.

 

It all made sense too much, and that realization made me feel pretty miserable. All those little moments (well, not too many of them, but we still had plenty of fun just walking or watching TV, these kinda things), just a work of my imagination.

 

Again, it sounds like you're looking for something to validate your point of view, but I've yet to see why you think what you did was wrong, and why she couldn't possible be real

 

To make things worse, she became upset and tensely asked me to go visit our wonderland at once. ...She also said that I shouldn't talk to her, she will try to reach me on her own.

 

No shit she was upset. Look at it like this.

 

Imagine for a moment that you're wrong, and she really was there and that she really did all the things you think she didn't actually do.

 

You decide to ignore all of that.

 

You ignore all the work that the both of you put into your relationship. You ignore all the precious moments that you two shared. You have absolutely no faith in her or her actions, and you play her off as a delusion, and not a sentient being. You, for all intents and purposes, bring her into this world as her only means of interaction with anything else, and then proceed to act as if she never existed, and her entire life up until this point was a lie and an illusion.

 

How do you think that would make her feel?

 

 

So, the question bothering me is: what shall I do?

 

You man the fuck up, apologize for everything you've done, explain why it is you doubted her, and leave her be until she contacts you. She may not immediately respond, but she'll most likely hear you all the same. It's the thought that counts.

 

It has been only a month, but she is already precious to me, and I want to believe her and in her, I really want. But I can't help but think that I was fooling myself all along, there are too many of these nasty little things that I've mentioned earlier.

 

See, you say this, but I honestly don't see it. You need to stop doubting her, yourself, and your method, because if you won't believe anything she does then why the hell would she do anything to prove otherwise?

 

I dont think you understand that this whole thing is all about delusions, faith and belief. Every step of the way is about believing in and accepting that your tulpa is real and so are the things they do, because if you don't then what's the point? You won't get anywhere by worrying over every little thing, much less discounting everything.

[Xantan]

I find myself pretty much backing up stragelove's points in this. Your account, especially her getting mad, maker her sound like a real person. I think the problem may be with a mental barrier. It's natural for your mind to try and reject the things you're telling it about your tulpa, you've (likely) never had another mind in there. You can try to change your perspective to see your tulpa as a person, rather than a thing you're working on, but it will take some time.

 

If she's the stubborn type and really does want to contact you first, maybe you should look into continuing her creation in the old methods. Usually these methods take longer but force the tulpa to learn to speak in a clear mind voice the host can't really ignore, which is what it sounds like she's aiming for. She's probably frustrated about not being believed so wants to hit you with something undeniable.

[HazyM]

Again, it sounds like you're looking for something to validate your point of view, but I've yet to see why you think what you did was wrong, and why she couldn't possible be real

Mainly because there are these oddities which seem insignificant but can be signs of something worse. I fear that I may end up like that one guy who discovered that 2/3 of his tulpas weren't even real. It is easier to do damage control while there is not much time spent.

No shit she was upset. Look at it like this.

 

Imagine for a moment that you're wrong, and she really was there and that she really did all the things you think she didn't actually do.

 

You decide to ignore all of that.

 

You ignore all the work that the both of you put into your relationship. You ignore all the precious moments that you two shared. You have absolutely no faith in her or her actions, and you play her off as a delusion, and not a sentient being. You, for all intents and purposes, bring her into this world as her only means of interaction with anything else, and then proceed to act as if she never existed, and her entire life up until this point was a lie and an illusion.

 

How do you think that would make her feel?

It is not like I already decided to ignore her, it is that I am concerned about how my effort can actually harm her wellbeing instead of helping and she is going down a path away from true sentience and independence because of me. That possibility itself frightens me enough.

You man the fuck up, apologize for everything you've done, explain why it is you doubted her, and leave her be until she contacts you. She may not immediately respond, but she'll most likely hear you all the same. It's the thought that counts.

I guess that is what I will do after all. Whatever she is doing now, it doesn't seem like she enjoys it, since all day I am having headaches and some sort of mental paralysis, unable to concentrate on anything or think properly. It is like she is always there, sitting and staring at me in uneasy silence... now I feel like a huge ass -_-

Your account, especially her getting mad, maker her sound like a real person.

Yeah, I've thought about it and then it came to me thet I wasn't expecting her attack at all. It was in fact that type of surprising behavior I've read about.

If she's the stubborn type and really does want to contact you first, maybe you should look into continuing her creation in the old methods. Usually these methods take longer but force the tulpa to learn to speak in a clear mind voice the host can't really ignore, which is what it sounds like she's aiming for. She's probably frustrated about not being believed so wants to hit you with something undeniable.

As I said, it doesn't seem she likes to be alone at all, so if it keeps going on like that, I will stop it and just try to go back to previous methods.

[Nobillis]

I ... rather found these answers too controversial.

 

It seems to me that all supposed sentience of her could be in fact my delusion and she wasn't independent, but rather an extension of my mind, a puppet for my random thoughts. That explains lack of "surprising" ... All those little moments (well, not too many of them, but we still had plenty of fun just walking or watching TV, these kinda things), just a work of my imagination. To make things worse, she became upset and tensely asked me to go visit our wonderland at once. As I arrived, she demanded me, well, to fight her. Since I was in no way prepared for that, she mopped the floor with me, wrecking up the entire place in the process, then left. She also said that I shouldn't talk to her, she will try to reach me on her own.

 

Hello there. You seem to somehow have formed the idea that tulpas naturally start independent. That's hardly the case. Most start in your imagination and gradually develop independence over time. So, yeah, why wouldn't it be imagination early on?

 

You also seem quite contradictory in what you are asking for. You complain about "lack of surprising" and then when she does something surprising ("she demanded me, well, to fight her") you complain about that as well! Basically, if I was your tulpa, I'd conclude there was no pleasing you.

 

If you can't just enjoy your time together and accept it for the fun it is then you are missing the whole point - it is supposed to be fun. You don't need to grind that fun into dust trying to find some particle of proof. What about trust, respect and caring? You want a tulpa but you aren't prepared to treat her like a person? If I didn't think humans were wonderful I'd have some bad things to say to you.

 

Right'o' buddy, you are being tested. If you can't show you care enough to even say "Good morning!" to your tulpa every day (three freakin' seconds of your time) then seriously rethink whether you should have a tulpa.

 

I'm not usually so harsh (ask around, you'll find out), but the way you are treating her is very unkind. Yeah, I'd probably say the same if I were in her place, and if you did stop speaking to me I'd never talk with you again. I don't know if you intend it (I hope not), but you come across as a bit heartless to me.

 

The sad thing is, around about now, she'll be defending you and thinking I'm totally wrong and wanting to tell me off for not being kinder to you when you are hurting. Well, if you are hurting, know that she is too. She'll likely dislike me now - that's good - passion is better then fading away.

 

P.S.: I make mistakes. Don't think I'm an authority or anything. I'm just person with "a bee in her bonnet" (Note to self: acquire a bonnet) Feel free to ignore me.

[HazyM]

I'm not usually so harsh (ask around, you'll find out), but the way you are treating her is very unkind. Yeah, I'd probably say the same if I were in her place, and if you did stop speaking to me I'd never talk with you again. I don't know if you intend it (I hope not), but you come across as a bit heartless to me.

That is correct, it was wrong of me to question her, especially with how she disliked my doubts to begin with. I am truly sorry for that. Gladly, I already apologized and she forgave me^^ And what's better, I believe that after I discarded my doubts and made it up to her, I was finally able to feel that "essence" thing I've read in some guides about. It is a wonderful thing indeed, an overwhelming feeling of safety and... errrr... "rightness" when I think about her. I just feel her presence and there is nothing I can do about it. Not that I want, anyway. As for me being heartless, I'm not usually like that, so I'm not sure why I seem that way. Perhaps that is because English is not my first language, so in my fear to fail I tend to express my thoughts in a long-winded and cold way. In reality though I am overly emotional and prone to irrational fears, she is the level-headed one in our relationship -_-

The sad thing is, around about now, she'll be defending you and thinking I'm totally wrong and wanting to tell me off for not being kinder to you when you are hurting. Well, if you are hurting, know that she is too. She'll likely dislike me now - that's good - passion is better then fading away.

Nah, she still thinks I was am an ass. A weak-willed whiny ass and drama queen, to be precise. Can't argue with that, I guess.

[Nayan]

You sound exactly like me! I'll bookmark this for whenever I start doubting again! :)

[Luminesce]

Ow, that hurt me to read. But it looks like you've got it sorted out now. I'll just add in some randomadvice since I didn't read everything everyone sent before me.

 

Even if your tulpa is reliant on you to think on their own, ie. must be asked a question, or don't seem to "surprise" you, the time you spend with them is still developing them. You were really successful at first, which is great, but even naturals still have to spend time developing their tulpas further. Mine didn't start "surprising" me until I started imposing them, though they were already able to speak for themselves and give me advice on things I couldn't think of myself.

 

And again I haven't read what everyone else said (short on time), but tulpas don't have to sleep/be busy/et cetera. Mine, developed naturally for years without knowing what a tulpa was until my register date here, don't bother with that kind of thing. They're very no-nonsense when it comes to unnecessary things, though they still do silly stuff to make me laugh occasionally.

 

(Read a little more of the replies..) As I've said many times before, the two worst things you can do from a tulpa's perspective are to doubt them, and to doubt yourself. I've been told personally by Reisen that it was hurtful when I told myself what she was saying was actually just me making stuff up, and many others will say the same. But they'll forgive you when you realize it. Generally speaking, tulpas just want to be happy together with their hosts. So keep that in mind - even when you do occasionally put words in their mouth, if they don't disagree there's no harm done. (It's a good idea to give them permission to take back what they've said as not what they meant, holding them to everything they first say can cause problems) Any time you spend with your tulpa is helping to develop them, no matter what problems arise. Treat everything as a learning experience and move on - that's all they want to do.

[FurryBlueNaki]

Excellent feedback all around. I don't think I've doubted my tulpa, but it is hard sometimes to imagine them being real. Chance understands how this can be.

[HazyM]

Wow, I have no idea how/why would anyone bring back this thread after all this time... Looking back, I feel really embarassed about this, but yes, we have long since sorted everything out. Her responses still have no "This is it!" feeling, but I don't think I even need it anymore, since she has done enough to reinforce my belief in her and tulpamancy in general. More than enough, in fact, some of her feats even make me jealous (in a good way of course). Now I just have to keep up xD

So keep that in mind - even when you do occasionally put words in their mouth, if they don't disagree there's no harm done.

Yeah, there are still times where there is a thought and I'm not sure if it is her or mine. Instead of doubting, however, I found that simply asking her about it works well enough. And if she is not sure as well, we just settle it together in a debate and then mark that thought manually.