can tulpas lie?

[mato]

hi, so thats it, basically, can tulpas lie? not that theyll tell you if they lie to you, but you could find out that something said was a lie

[jean-luc]

It really depends how developed your tulpa is and how separated ypu are from them. A fully-grown tulpa would certainly be able to lie

[mato]

oh, i see.. i dont have a tulpa yet and i havent started forcing, but thought of this and wanted to ask, maybe someone has caught their tulpa lying to them; itd be interesting to know if the tulpa feels sorry afterwards or maybe they dont really care o:

[sushi]

[hidden]Lying is a very broad topic. Here in the States, we tell our children that lying is bad, and the very story we use to illustrate that point (George Washington and the cherry tree) is as much a lie as Santa Claus -- another lie that we feed our children.

 

My only problem with Buddhism as a philosophy, and the only reason that I don't consider myself a Buddhist, is that Buddhism says we should never lie.

 

I think we need to drop the pretense that lies are universally bad:

• White lies make people feel better about themselves.
  
• Santa Claus (and the Easter Bunny, and creepypastas, and so on, and so on) is fun.
  
• Taking the blame for something that someone else has done can be a very noble act.
  
• Sometimes a lie can serve a greater purpose. Irena Sendler smuggled thousands of Jewish children out of Germany during the holocaust. If any official ever questioned her about what she was doing, I sure hope she lied about it -- those lies could have saved innocent lives.
  
• Foma are harmless lies that make us brave and kind and healthy and happy. As an example, most religions must be lies, as they contradict each other. But people who believe in these false religions are happier than people who don't. If someone does something bad to a religious man, he can think to himself "Well, he's going to burn in hell." or "Karma will get him back." Such thoughts give the man comfort and keep him from seeking revenge, making him kinder, healthier, and happier, even when they're not true.
  

So that's five ways that lies can be good.

 

There are also many different types of lies:

1. There's the simplest form: telling someone something that isn't true.
   
2. When someone knows you're a liar, and you tell them the truth, you're deceiving them because they'll never believe it.
   
3. Sometimes a truthful statement can deceive by not telling the whole truth. "Did you cheat on me that night?" "No, I didn't cheat on you that night."
   
4. Some lies are completely acceptable in context. If I go to a magic show and the magician doesn't try to fool me, or I go to a poker game and nobody tries to bluff me, I'm going to be very disappointed.
   
5. Fabrication is saying something you don't know is true -- but it could be. Rumors get started this way.
   
6. Exaggeration is a matter of degree. I can say that there was a downpour outside, when really it was just a drizzle.
   
7. Some lies are impossible to verify, because they refer to our subjective experience. If I tell you that I'm not angry when I am, or that I'm not hallucinating when I am, you may never know the truth of those statements.
   
8. Some lies are never meant to be believed. I attended a meditation retreat where we took a vow of honesty. The instructor told us that we could come to him any time, day or night, if we had a problem. The female manager told him jokingly "You better watch out! I'll be stopping by at four in the morning!" He gently reminded her that we weren't supposed to be telling untruths. Then she pointed out that she could really show up at four in the morning to make it true. Because of course...
   
9. Broken promises aren't necessarily lies when we tell them. Sometimes we have every intention of following through when we make a promise, but the way we feel changes before it's time to fulfill it.
   

[/hidden]

 

A tulpa can't really know things about the world that you yourself don't know. So when Fenchurch is on the other side of the house, and she says the cat just walked into the room, I know that she doesn't know where the cat is any more than I do, even if they're in the same room.

 

So Fenchurch can (and has) lied to me. But I can never really "catch" her in a lie, because either I know she's lying, and she knows that I know, or she's lying about things I can never verify -- opinion things like "I like that story." or "You have a lot of talent." or the details of my subconscious mind. She told me once that she was responsible for a dream I had. I don't know whether it's true, and I don't think I'll ever know.

[glitchthe3rd]

Ordinarily this would be a stupid question, because it's easy for a host to read his tulpa's intent to see if she's telling the truth or not. But when you think about it, a tulpa is capable of lying in scenarios where they can't be disproven, as sushi pointed out.

[NekoiNemo]

Well, tulpa is a person so there's no reason why they couldn't lie (and also Yami said she could). So, yeah, definitely "could". As for "would" it all depends on the tulpa in question.

[mato]

sorry if this was a stupid question. i also wonder why would tulpa lie, but there can be a lot of reasons; and if they would feel guilt or regret lying, but as nekoi put it, tulpa is a person, i like that and i dont see why they wouldnt have negative feelings after telling a lie

[arcanemagic]

sorry if this was a stupid question. i also wonder why would tulpa lie, but there can be a lot of reasons; and if they would feel guilt or regret lying, but as nekoi put it, tulpa is a person, i like that and i dont see why they wouldnt have negative feelings after telling a lie

 

It's fine. It was a bit silly, but some of the responses(especially sushi's) were pretty interesting to read. As for the question of why a tulpa would lie, it could be anything, depending on the situation. And for that last bit, it really depends on the tulpa. Just like people, there are bound to be tulpas who feel no guilt/regret when lying and there are also bound to be tulpas that feel awful about even the smallest lie. The majority, however, probably lie(heh. get it?) somewhere in between those two.

[CM]

My former tulpa did lie to me. About not planning on leaving (which, according to my other tulpa, he had been planning for weeks) and not being depressed.

 

I had absolutely no idea about it before I heard Desmond tell me. But I still understand why he lied, since if he had been honest I would never have let him go and do my best to make him stay even against his will, and I would've been sad as hell and already had plenty of problems in my life.

[tania]

I personally disagree about what another said that a tulpa cant know things oneself don't know. Tulpas if they are able to access ones mind may pick up things that a person has only picked up subconsciously and not consciously, so it is possible for one to know more then ones normal self does.

 

As far as lying goes, yes they can lie. My tulpas have been programmed to be honest and open so I can be fairly sure I won't get lied too (the only thing which may alter that is the wisdom which is also part of my tulpas personality, which is possible could cause him to tell a lie if it didn't think I could handle the truth).

 

Anyway, things like this are something to consider when creating your Tulpa