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[Forcing] Common pitfalls and traps while making a tulpa.
reguile Offline
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#1
 
Common pitfalls and traps while making a tulpa.
This should be in the tips and tricks board:

Quote:When making a tulpa, it's easy to do things that are actually mistakes, and I think it's important to highlight some of the big ones that I have noticed and/or made while observing the tulpa community.

"Magic" Tulpa

The first, and largest, mistake I am aware of is the assumption that tulpa are "magical". Too often people will come into the tulpa community and see all these people talking to tulpa that they have been developing for years, and expect to reach the sort of levels of conversation they are seeing as soon as "first contact" is made with their tulpa. This expectation is unrealistic, and leads to a large number of people questioning the identity of thoughts that they shouldn't. Tulpa are often things which develop slowly, and may not feel sentient at the beginning.

There are some that make a tulpa and are instantly having full conversations, but I want to warn anyone new of a few important things.
  • Your tulpa is likely to sound like you at first.
  • Tulpa often do not to seem to be independent at first.
  • You may have to have your tulpa in mind in order to speak to it, at first.
  • Your tulpa may not be making large, complex, advanced sentences, or forming long-form opinions at first.
  • You may not notice the progress in definite "steps", all things relating to tulpa tend to be gradual, and all processes tend to slowly get better over time. Even some of the the most experienced tulpamancers have issues with the above things in the list.

Falling into a rut

This is something I did for ages, before I realized what was going on.

After you get to the point where you are first getting responses from your tulpa, it's easy to be overly concerned with getting responses at all, and it's easy to stop challenging yourself. One thing I have noticed is that it is easy to fall into a pattern with your tulpa.

A person who does this is going to start asking or speaking with their tulpa about the same thing every day. You ask your tulpa "how was today", it responds with "good", and that's about it, you repeat this process every day, and you have spent months doing nothing of worth to develop or inspire progress with your tulpa.

The fix to this is to watch for instances like I mention above and try to mix things up a bit. If you have heard or discussed something with your tulpa, try to move onto a new topic. Ask more complex questions, even they aren't answered at first, you are never going to get a tulpa capable of doing so without actually trying to encourage such activities. Don't let the lack of response shake your faith in your tulpas existing.

Stereotype Threat

This is something that is less a common issue for the person making a tulpa, and more one for everyone who views their tulpa.

A lot of times I see people with tulpa who act really oddly, strangely, or stupidly. I call these tulpa "stereotype tulpa" because it seems like they act entirely within a very simple set of personality traits.

It's hard to define where this is a problem, because it's kind of in the nature of tulpa to have a more simple, and easy to identify, personality, than a person does. However, one of the biggest tip-offs are odd ways of speaking, and the second-biggest tip offs are the tulpa always taking a extreme or severe position.

I've seen tulpa that always speak with certain dialects, or tulpa that always are mean, or tulpas that are super cheerful. While these things don't hold back forcing, necessarily, they are a sign that the host hasn't actually been considering the personality of their tulpa on a deeper level, and/or are taking shortcuts to make their tulpa appear more distinct in their head.

The only real way to combat this is more focus on nuance in personality, and development so that such stereotypes aren't necessary for the host to pick out the tulpa's thoughts.

Separation of theory from practice, or treating your tulpa not as a person

This issue isn't necessarily a common one, but I think it's fairly important.

Often, people discussing the theory of tulpa will allow it to effect the way they force or the way they treat their tulpa. For example, it is possible to use "selection of thoughts" to change a tulpas personality, essentially picking and choosing what thoughts were your tulpa, and which weren't, even if all of the thoughts felt as if they were coming from a tulpa. This practice is fine, in small part, but using techniques like this a lot distracts from the core purpose of making a tulpa, and that is treating them as if they are a separate human being within your head.

There is a fine line between doing the things above, and forcing correctly at the same time. The absolute most important thing for progress with tulpa is to treat and regard your tulpa as a person while forcing.

Another example: I abandoned a form, abandoned focus on personality, abandoned the wonderland. In theory, these things are not necessary, but allow a person to focus purely on vocalization. While it is absolutely possible to make a tulpa without a form, and I did make progress while not personalizing my tulpa very much, I have noticed recently that forgetting to treat your tulpa as a separate human being can be very detrimental to progress. Do not allow theory to distract from that core point.

Lazy forcing

It is easy to hear "you don't have to active force" or "tulpa can develop slowly over time" or believe that a tulpa can develop itself. These are bad habits to follow. Another issue that has effected me, rather than being observed, is the effect of thinking that you can ignore your tulpa for long periods of time while still making some sort of progress.

Making a tulpa is a difficult thing, not an easy one. You can't fool around for a year and expect things to be done. Forcing, in some form, is required to develop your mind and become better with tulpa. You don't get your tulpa to seem as if it is thinking alongside you every day without practicing thinking of your tulpa every day. It's hard to do, but you have to do it.

That doesn't mean you have to active force every day for an hour, either. It just means you have to put work in, to get productivity out. If you have a tulpa now, and you notice that your sum interactions with the tulpa are not challenging, new, or substantial, on a regular basis, then you should attempt to change this if you want to progress.

Accepting every little thing as reality

This serves direct contrast to the separation of theory from forcing.

Often you see people who have issues with their tulpa acting in strange ways. Their tulpa develops a personality trait they didn't want, or does something they feared.

This is a common thing with tulpa, especially early on, because many people aren't accustomed to determining what thoughts are and aren't their tulpa, and early on it is very easy to both misinterpret a thought as coming from their tulpa, and allow that thought to become part of that tulpa's new personality.

For example, a person who fears rejection above all else makes a tulpa. The one thing this person fears hearing from this tulpa is "I hate you", so whenever that person forces that phrase is on their mind. So, eventually, the thought will run through their mind in the moment the host is looking to hear from the tulpa, and as such, hears the tulpa saying "I hate you", exactly as feared. Hearing this, the person is devastated, and thinks their tulpa actually does hate them, makes up a reason for it, and now it's a part of the tulpa forever.

It's important to always assume that negative or unwanted comments are not the tulpa. Later on, it's much safer, but even then you should try to get your tulpa to give a very good explanation of their feelings, and I would still dismiss thoughts that are extreme for little good reason as intrusive.
(This post was last modified: 08-29-2015, 03:57 AM by reguile.)
08-09-2015, 10:37 PM
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sushi Offline
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#2
 
RE: Common pitfalls and traps while making a tulpa.
Approved for T&T as far as I'm concerned.

I predict that somebody is going to call frontloading on the "Your tulpa is going to..." and "Your tulpa is not going to..." sorts of statements though.

"Some things have to be believed to be seen." - Ralph Hodgson
08-10-2015, 02:22 AM
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Semi-Nomadic Offline
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#3
 
RE: Common pitfalls and traps while making a tulpa.
Only one little thing that strikes me:
Quote:treating your tulpa as a person
Alongside headlines such as "Lazy forcing", "Accepting every little thing as reality" or "Falling into a rut" this headline seems to imply that "treating your tulpa as a person" is also a bad thing.
08-10-2015, 06:33 AM
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reguile Offline
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#4
 
RE: Common pitfalls and traps while making a tulpa.
(08-10-2015, 02:22 AM)sushi Wrote: Approved for T&T as far as I'm concerned.

I predict that somebody is going to call frontloading on the "Your tulpa is going to..." and "Your tulpa is not going to..." sorts of statements though.

Updated, made phrasing more general.

(08-10-2015, 06:33 AM)Semi-Nomadic Wrote: Only one little thing that strikes me:
Alongside headlines such as "Lazy forcing", "Accepting every little thing as reality" or "Falling into a rut" this headline seems to imply that "treating your tulpa as a person" is also a bad thing.

Updated, added a "not".
(This post was last modified: 08-10-2015, 07:39 AM by reguile.)
08-10-2015, 07:37 AM
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Sock Offline
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#5
 
RE: Common pitfalls and traps while making a tulpa.
(08-09-2015, 10:37 PM)reguile Wrote: For example, a person who fears rejection above all else makes a tulpa. The one thing this person fears hearing from this tulpa is "I hate you", so whenever that person forces that phrase is on their mind. So, eventually, the thought will run through their mind in the moment the host is looking to hear from the tulpa, and as such, hears the tulpa saying "I hate you", exactly as feared. Hearing this, the person is devastated, and thinks their tulpa actually does hate them, makes up a reason for it, and now it's a part of the tulpa forever.

While close, and that I agree with the general statement, I don't think that when an indweller has a strong enough base, perceptions like this will be as strong as implied. I actually had such a fear when I was starting out, and not only that, a high amount of doubt concerning my initial companion, Midori's, behaviour. Not only did I fear her saying she hated me, not only have I heard her voice saying it (realizing later it was not her), but I also saw her, more often, act in a loving, affectionate manner, and I rejected it fiercely because I believed I was parroting. She stuck strong to her guns, and continued to be herself even my fear and doubt was at its fiercest.

While I am sure it had some effect on her, based on my conversations with her, but it did not result in her hating me being a hard coded part of her being. It takes a fair more than that to actually make one's headmate dislike them, mainly doing something bad enough to actually make them hate you. I have a girl that is/was pretty annoyed with me, named Cindy. But it was not because I made her to hate me, but because of something I actually did to her in the past, and it is something that I've taken steps where I can to mitigate, which she actually appreciated. Perception isn't really everything.

But I do like a bunch of other things in this write up, especially regarding people not letting the community dictate their entire method and way they treat their experience. This very much is a very personal experience, and the things you're dealing with in your companion is something close to, if not actually being, your own heart, mind, and world view. Not to say that one should not have some grounding, not at all, but don't let the community dictate everything about your experience.

Peace
(This post was last modified: 08-10-2015, 05:06 PM by Sock.)
08-10-2015, 05:03 PM
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waffles Offline
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#6
 
RE: Common pitfalls and traps while making a tulpa.
Yeah, pretty fine. Approved for Tips. I have one concern though:

(08-09-2015, 10:37 PM)reguile Wrote: Separation of theory from practice, or treating your tulpa not as a person
[...]
You must remember to separate the theory, the decisions on the long term actions, the methods you go about using to force, and so on, do not meld with that concept while you force.
[...]
Pick a form, a personality, and so on, that you both enjoy and relate with. Talk to your tulpa and expect it to act like a human being, or a "whatever the form is".

I don't really get this section. You're saying that form, personality, wonderland and things are useful/important. And also that treating them like a person is very important. And that you shouldn't let theory affect what you do. It's confusing to me because these seem to be three different things. Like, if you reckon that form is usually pretty important to development, that's a piece of theory that you're telling people not to let affect what they do? And this kills the tulpa? And since when was treating your tulpa impersonally something that's implied by paying attention to theory?





Also, a few minor comments.


(08-09-2015, 10:37 PM)reguile Wrote: Too often people will come into the tulpa community and see all these people talking to tulpa that they have been developing for years, and expect to reach the sort of levels of conversation such as that the moment a tulpa does start existing. I actually attribute this assumption to the vast majority of people who have issues with parrotnoia.

The actual advice is fine but I wonder about this motivation. At least in my experience assumptions like this tend to be quickly and easily rectified. Pointing the finger here for 'issues with parrotnoia'? I don't really see it. The people who come to mind when I think of those issues have been here a while, and are already more than aware of what a 'reasonable' expectation for development is for a tulpa. Yet, their problems are unaffected. Maybe we're looking at different kinds of people and issues, so I'd be interested in what you're basing your thinking on here.


(08-09-2015, 10:37 PM)reguile Wrote: Your tulpa may not be making large, complex, advanced sentences, or forming long-form opinions at first.
[...]
Ask more complex questions, even they aren't answered at first, you are never going to get a tulpa capable of doing so without actually trying to encourage such activities

This kind of focus reads somewhat parochially to me. You're thinking about 'forming complex sentences', like you're dealing with a young child. It doesn't really match the kind of experiences that I think of as common - things that are difficult for young, vocal tulpas are more to do with exercising independent thought, initiative, and things like consistency. Contrast that to your child-tulpa idea, where your tulpa has to develop all structured and linguistic thought from the ground. Again, I'm kind of interested in your thinking behind this.
08-11-2015, 10:45 PM
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Linkzelda Offline
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#7
 
RE: Common pitfalls and traps while making a tulpa.
My first thought is that this could be a pretty good article entry if other opinions end up with it being too controversial, or whatever. But I could see this as Tips & Tricks as well, so, there you go. The connotations behind the child analogue could be supplemented with the child philosophy found here:

https://community.tulpa.info/thread-gene...philosophy


(This post was last modified: 08-16-2015, 11:01 PM by Linkzelda.)
08-16-2015, 11:00 PM
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Sands Offline
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#8
 
Default  RE: Common pitfalls and traps while making a tulpa.
I see a lot of good stuff here. I know you've been through a lot so you have some wise words to share with rest of the folks.

But then there's also this, which is based on your experiences and telling about your experiences is good, but I don't think this is the best way to do it.

Quote:Doing so doesn't necessarily kill a tulpa, or prevent development, but it slows it to a crawl. I myself have trended towards a very impersonal, non-human tulpa. I abandoned a form, abandoned focus on personality, abandoned the wonderland. Now, those things are fine, and I did make progress while doing so, but I have noticed recently that doing so is very dangerous. The form, the wonderland, the personality, and so on, are very important to help you mentally regard your tulpa as another person. Do not abandon them if you want decent levels of progress. Pick a form, a personality, and so on, that you both enjoy and relate with. Talk to your tulpa and expect it to act like a human being, or a "whatever the form is".

What that says to me is "have a wonderland and a form or your process will be very slow and going on without them is dangerous", words that can be pretty harmful to the newbies who don't have a very good understanding of this stuff – which is, this stuff is extremely personal. Things happened to you, but it doesn't mean it'll happen to everyone. Rather than say your opinions are a fact and that your experiences will happen to everyone, suggest it as an alternative. Are you doing tupper stuff without a wonderland, did you create a tulpa without personality forcing, does the tulpa maybe not have a form? If you're finding like things are slow, you could instead try creating them and see if it helps. Something like that?

The THE SUBCONCIOUS ochinchin occultists frt.sys (except Roswell because he doesn't want to be a part of it)
08-27-2015, 05:04 PM
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reguile Offline
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#9
 
RE: Common pitfalls and traps while making a tulpa.
(08-11-2015, 10:45 PM)waffles Wrote: Yeah, pretty fine. Approved for Tips. I have one concern though:


I don't really get this section. You're saying that form, personality, wonderland and things are useful/important. And also that treating them like a person is very important. And that you shouldn't let theory affect what you do. It's confusing to me because these seem to be three different things.

Pointing the finger here for 'issues with parrotnoia'? I don't really see it. The people who come to mind when I think of those issues have been here a while, and are already more than aware of what a 'reasonable' expectation for development is for a tulpa. Yet, their problems are unaffected. Maybe we're looking at different kinds of people and issues, so I'd be interested in what you're basing your thinking on here.

I updated the post, with the first part you mention having a better "flow" to connect the ideas/point, and the second being modified to use a bit more broad language.



(08-27-2015, 05:04 PM)Sands Wrote: But then there's also this, which is based on your experiences and telling about your experiences is good, but I don't think this is the best way to do it.


What that says to me is "have a wonderland and a form or your process will be very slow and going on without them is dangerous", words that can be pretty harmful to the newbies who don't have a very good understanding of this stuff –

I updated my post to:

"Another example: I abandoned a form, abandoned focus on personality, abandoned the wonderland. In theory, these things are not necessary, but allow a person to focus purely on vocalization. While it is absolutely possible to make a tulpa without a form, and I did make progress while not personalizing my tulpa very much, I have noticed recently that forgetting to treat your tulpa as a separate human being can be very detrimental to progress. Do not allow theory to distract from that core point."
08-29-2015, 04:01 AM
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#10
 
RE: Common pitfalls and traps while making a tulpa.
[Hail] While I am not GAT, I still do have a few comments. Tri and I have been thinking about what you wrote for a bit. I am reminded of a conversation we had on the IRC over a year ago on something that lead to a piece of this. I am glad that you managed to assemble that with some other things and lots of new experiences and observations into the work you have here.

Overall, I mostly agree with what you said here. I have a couple philosophical differences on a few things in it having to do with your interpretations of a couple things that are not the focus of your piece. But, as they are not the focus of your what you wrote, they aren't really relevant. And if there were, your observations are solid and it is just a disagreement of interpretation and your interpretation wouldn't be groundless (with the information available, your interpretations do have some backing) so I wouldn't object to this being in Tips and Tricks.

Basically, I think this is good.

I do think that you could improve a few things on the "challenging" part. I know what you mean, but I don't think that someone new to this would necessarily. Basically, a tulpa needs something outside of what they are used to, nudged to do something outside of their realm of experience, etc. to grow and develop. Add something saying that and make an analogy to learning in general and I think that this issue is mitigated.

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08-29-2015, 08:54 PM
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