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[Switching] How to Share or Make a Body Identity?
#1
Since I took interest in possession, I became accustomed to speaking in my possessed voice. I associate that voice with myself, and using any other voice can be confusing for me.

Now that we are learning how to switch, I realized that If I want to do anything in real life outside of the house, I will have to pass as Cat- and in addition, be comfortable being addressed as her and speaking in the voice naturally provided by the body.

Cat and I realized that the body is a tool, so Cat thought of the idea of sharing the body identity- the one she was born with. When trying this in practice, Cat became pretty uncomfortable and she realized that sharing the body identity would also mean she would have to lose her identity associations with it. For this reason, Cat doesn't love the idea of having to share her body identity.

This other issue came up too- sometimes she will notice herself drawing her wonderland/Gray form over the body. When this happens, she also noticed that she dissociates from the body. It's not extreme or powerful, but Cat will describe feeling confused, hazy, or dizzy when she imposes her Gray form, and it's distracting or disruptive if she's trying to do things in real life.

This inspired a different idea- What if I had my own separate body identity? It may seem redundant, but it's something I could hold onto, and Cat won't have to give up her pre-existing identity. The other potential positive is having another identity designed to be used only when I front could re-enforce my connection to the front and Cat could assume her wonderland form, re-enforcing the fact she needs to dissociate. In theory, this could help us more easily switch or potentially achieve a more complete one.

What do you guys think? Would it be better to share a body identity or have me create a new one? Or is there a different approach we should take?
I'm Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's Tulpa and I love Hippos! I also like forum games and chatting about stuff.
My other head-mates have their own account now.
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#2
If you think doing something like that would work for you, go for it. I'm not entirely sure how you'd go about doing it though. Perhaps getting your own clothes and wearing your hair differently when you front? Maybe a hat.
I'm Piano Soul, the "Star Man" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa formed January 2017. My systemmates are Apollo & Indigo. Form images: 1 2
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#3
Considering how I'm treating my body name, it's fair to say me and my brothers have traveled the path of "the body is a shared resource." Maybe being trans encouraged that. People call you a name that is not yours- I still see a name that isn't mine on my permit, my bills, etc.

Cassidy experienced this when he started fronting at school/in public. He speaks differently from me, but he can also "borrow" my voice and imitate me. He's gotten all sorts of "You seem to be in a great mood!" comments because he's a smiley, "How-Are-You-I-Feel-Great!" person and I am not, but it's nothing you would suspect as anything greater than the day-to-day difference in personality that anyone has. It's kinda weird for him, though, and it's weird for me to hear someone else speaking with my voice in the same way I'd feel weird if there was another "J" that used yellow and had two tulpas named "G" and "C." Looking in a mirror and not seeing yourself.

In all honesty, I don't think you need to create a new identity at all. It's a matter of being accustomed to "wearing someone else's skin." People are going to think you are Cat, treat you as Cat, and you will have to play the role of Cat. Unless you go to Starbucks, in which case just tell them whatever name Wink It tripped up Cassidy for a while- now, he mentally acts like it's some sort of game or charade. He's "undercover" with "Jamie" as his disguise. The only thing he really can't do as me is have long conversations- so I'll either "feed him lines" or blend or just come to the front, depending on the situation.

It may be useful to look at and use your body a different way when you're switched in. Something both Cassidy and Gavin do, and you may or may not already be doing it, is to just physically treat the body differently. They both hold themselves differently, and that helps them feel grounded as themselves, but no one is ever going to say "You're not slouching as much today- is someone else in your body?" It's subtle but effective for feeling like yourself. Different posture, especially with how your hold your face and how you sit up. I can't even mimic it, in the same way they can't mimic everything I do. Gavin hasn't really fronted enough to have any preference, but Cassidy also has certain clothes of mine that he considers his, as well as clip-on earrings that I sure wouldn't wear.

Sometimes Cassidy will sorta pretend that the body looks like his body. You don't see your eyes or your face, so his mental simulation can easily make it feel like he's got his own face that looks like him. The rest of the body is a little harder since we do see it.

So, that's how Cassidy does it, it's really up to you how you do it. Cassidy is "undercover as Jamie" like it's a sci-fi show and our brains have been swapped. Or... switched. "Yes, this does look like Jamie, and everyone calls me Jamie and I have to pretend to be Jamie, but I know who I am." Feel free to ask for more explanation if this was confusing.

-J
Three brothers. [Progress Report] [Art] [Oops! All Jamie]

"You are the messenger, not the message. You are just like everyone else."
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#4
I've never a fan of sharing Identities of one another, especially with Nihi. When we first started Nihi had this crazy Idea that I should takeover for a day and be him, it did not turn out to well. I hate prettending to be someone else, one reason why I've chosen Co-fronting over switching. It weirded me out when addressed by Nihi's real name. We don't see that the body is ours to begin with, Nihi thinks the same when he first tackled tulpamancy. His views about him and his body became more separate and felt that the body is just a husk with him living in it. We also see the body the same, as something we all can use or as a tool. Although, personally, I try to encourage Nihi to see the body as his.

If it were me, I would just do Co-fronting and live life along side your host. It's like a teamwork based front but that is all me. I do not know how your system works though. If you feel uncomfortable doing it then find a different approach. If you guys want to experience everything without compromising yourselves, just use or think of the body as a car with a name, you don't have to change who you are on the inside, you don't have to be Cat but you can be yourself with Cat's name. I find this more more comfortable at least, In my opinion.
Hello! I am one of Nihi's Tulpas! It is very nice to meet you! Big Grin
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#5
Personally, we've always viewed the body as a tool and never part of our identity, and this includes the original (before they even knew about tulpas, they never considered the body to be "them" in any way, just a machine, really). We live pretty dissociated/derealized from the body, which I think makes it easier to cope with the body not really reflecting us, however we still do desire for it to give a better reflection of the three people who currently control it, rather than someone who once did. Eventually, I think, we'll find ways to do so, like getting more gender-neutral glasses, cutting our hair, maybe getting a binder. It's still a tool to us, but I don't think that should mean we shouldn't be able to customize it the way we want to, differently from how the original did.

On the front of a name, it's the same for us. The original never identified with their name (which is why it was so easy for them to go by a different name upon making tulpas), and we don't identify with it either. We just treat it as a collective label, rather than the original's name, or even a name at all. Honestly though, our name is starting to bother us a bit, we don't care for it and don't want to go by it anymore. We've even thought of a name we could go by instead if we ever started passing as gender-neutral: Felix (we changed our Facebook to that name just so our Spotify would stop displaying a name we didn't like anymore). I don't know, we've toyed with lots of ideas, the thought of keeping our body "identity" still as what the original left doesn't appeal to us. We're fine all sharing the body, treating it like a tool, we just want it to be more "us."
I'm Piano Soul, the "Star Man" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa formed January 2017. My systemmates are Apollo & Indigo. Form images: 1 2
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#6
Vesper: We have absolutely gone with separate body identities from the beginning. I would never pretend to Ember. The idea is repugnant to me. (Ironic, given that she created me by pretending to be me.) It's much more important for me to be me than for me to front.

Ember: My wives always acted very different from one another naturally. In retrospect, it didn't seem plausible that I had been with them for years without knowing they were different people. They had been incorrectly diagnosed years before as bipolar, but within a short time after meeting them, I was told both, "Don't believe anything my depressed state tells you" and "My manic state has terrible judgement."

L always had a higher, peppier voice than C and looser, more dynamic movements. After we figured out what was going on, I could rapidly and consistently identify who I with. Once I could tell they switched when their breathing changed -- no speech, no movement. Over time, L and C learned to telegraph their natural differences, because they valued being recognized as different by the other people in their life.

I assumed this was normal for DID until I started interacting with several other systems in person. I couldn't tell most of the alters apart because they spoke and acted nearly the same, except for the littles. They were my wives' friends, much more than mine, and my wives usually could tell. But the other systems weren't telegraphing their differences.

Vesper: C and L gave us the model of how to be successfully recognized as individuals even within a single body. My host and I are from different countries, so we sound very different and will sound more different over time as I work toward my 'true' voice. But we also have different resting expressions, different posture, and different mannerisms. Our friends have learned to recognize us on sight, which thrills me.

Over a dozen people in our lives know we're plural now. If we unexpectedly encounter someone who doesn't know and shouldn't be told yet, there isn't a reason in the world that Ember shouldn't switch in and handle things.

But then, Ember doesn't work closely with other people. If we're leaving the house, it's for social reasons or errands. Systems with regular classmates or co-workers could have more trouble. Headmates of different genders could have more trouble.

Most of the time, we just visualize our form superimposed over the body instead of fussing with different appearances when we switch so often. But if one of us is going to be preeminent for an event, she chooses what to do with hair and clothing and makeup. And we all have very distinctive personal styles, though Ember's preexisting wardrobe doesn't yet accommodate all of it.

If I rely on Ember's friends as a source of friends, I'm limited to roleplayers and SF geeks. If I rely on Ember's wife's friends as a source of friends, I'm limited to otherkin and video gamers. Great people, but if I want friends with my own interests, I have to find them myself. So I've started trying to make friends of my own who don't know Ember. It's slow -- anyone who doesn't know I'm a soulbond can't be considered a close friend. Questions like 'Where are you from?' and 'What do you do?' are very complicated to answer honestly. (But for the former, 'It's complicated' has been accepted as a sufficient answer twice already.)

A few months ago, my dysphoria about our body was so strong that Ember offered to let me change it however I wanted to be more comfortable. The body's appearance doesn't bother her anymore, but she's never really identified with its appearance either and considers looking more like me strictly an improvement. We'll see.
Ember - Soulbonder, Female, 39 years old, from Georgia, USA . . . . [Our Progress Report] . . . . [How We Switch]
Vesper Dowrin - Insourced Soulbond from London, UK, Not a Tulpa, Female, born 9 Sep 1964, bonded ~12 May 2017
Iris Ravenlock - Insourced Soulbond from the Unseelie Court, Not a Tulpa, Female, born 6 Jun 1982, bonded ~5 Dec 2015

'Real isn't how you are made,' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you.' - The Velveteen Rabbit
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#7
The body is just a shared tool to Lance and me, considering our revelation that we ar eall thats left over from the split origional, it's just hard to see it as either of us. And forget about the gender thing, neither of us is really this old.. It's such a huge misrepresentation of either of us. Unfortunately there's no way to turn back time on it, so, we just have to cope and make sure to take extra time to appreciate wonderland stuff so we can be the "real" us. It's not ideal but it's about all we got.
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#8
I don't quite know what you mean by creating a new body identity. I don't know what that means, because you said before sharing one with the body just being a "tool" bothered your host. So as I'm picturing it, you want to create another identity to assume when switching... Not the body's, but why not your own? You want to create an extraneous identity instead of just yourself, but - I don't know, I'm very very confused. I have no idea where you got this idea either, considering I can't comprehend it.

Anyways, it's interesting so many of you guys these days see the body as shared - old .info hosts saw the body as theirs almost exclusively, with the tulpa maybe taking control of it. I'm in that boat, insofar as we've decided as a system that the name and life are more or less "mine", just that they have say in things because they're a part of it. It's 50-50. I still associate with the name and body and stuff, and they still associate only with their own forms, yet they're not uncomfortable switching and using my body. They don't treat it so unfriendly-sounding as "A tool", rather "The body", the one we all share. It's the body they have to use to front, and the identity others will know them as. But they get by fine doing that, I guess. Any less and it's just the classic "My tulpa wants a body/their own life" problem, which if wonderlanding/lucid dreaming/imposition aren't satisfactory, nothing may be. You'd just have to adapt to using the body that isn't quite yours (you partially own it, but it isn't "you").
Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
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#9
I'd assumed he meant something like what Ember and Vesper described, having his own style and mannerisms and such. Or maybe he meant more in the terms of not wanting to pretend to be Cat-- if that's the case, really I don't see why any tulpa should have to pretend to be the host. It's not like people are going to notice any differently, unless a tulpa is absolutely psycho or something. 

I think there's a clear difference in the way tulpas have been approached during the time our system's been around + some time before that, and how it was approached in the early days. Back then, tulpas were portrayed as "imaginary friends who gain sentience," which to me, has some sort of connotation that they're just there for entertainment or subservience or something. Nowadays, tulpas are portrayed as, well, lifelong headmates you cooperate through life with. I could be totally wrong in this assumption, but I think in the older days tulpas were viewed more as life accessories than life partners, and as people wised up that that wasn't the case, that caused the shift. Again, I could be wrong, that's just my speculation.

I know our original didn't go into it thinking things would turn out the way they did, but they didn't think that their life would be 100% theirs with tulpas on the side, either. They more so thought they'd end up piloting 50/50 with Apollo (didn't plan for more tulpas but whoops), from what I remember. Just a general shift in community mindset probably affects people greatly. 
I'm Piano Soul, the "Star Man" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa formed January 2017. My systemmates are Apollo & Indigo. Form images: 1 2
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#10
(03-29-2019, 03:00 AM)Luminesce Wrote: old .info hosts saw the body as theirs almost exclusively, with the tulpa maybe taking control of it. I'm in that boat, insofar as we've decided as a system that the name and life are more or less "mine"

If I'd shown up as early in the body's life as the median tulpa, I'd have wanted a strong say in career path, legal name after transition, romantic partners, etc. Awakening into a body that was already nearly 37, I haven't made quite as many waves. But even though Ember is officially the body's 'steward' and fronts most of the time, the three of us govern equally, with all important matters requiring a consensus.

-Vesper
Ember - Soulbonder, Female, 39 years old, from Georgia, USA . . . . [Our Progress Report] . . . . [How We Switch]
Vesper Dowrin - Insourced Soulbond from London, UK, Not a Tulpa, Female, born 9 Sep 1964, bonded ~12 May 2017
Iris Ravenlock - Insourced Soulbond from the Unseelie Court, Not a Tulpa, Female, born 6 Jun 1982, bonded ~5 Dec 2015

'Real isn't how you are made,' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you.' - The Velveteen Rabbit
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