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[Wonderland] Am I giving them a wonderland?
#1
I'm fairly new to the tulpa thing and the beginner's guide said that it's not necessary to have a wonderland. I'm not 100% sure I've got a wonderland as I never go there, but there's a separate world they can go to if they don't fancy sticking around the real world. They go there sometimes for months. I can still get in touch with them while they're there but it's more like having a phone call with them--they don't have any physical presence, and they can ignore my invitation to chat.

Is that a wonderland?

If they decide to come in to the real world they always seem to have stories of what they've been up to in this place. But it's not a place I share with them, as such. If we share time together, it's almost always in my actual bedroom. I'm not saying they gain a physical body but it's like I project them into my room and visualise them beside me and I can feel certain sensations like touches, etc. (although I really have to pay attention and focus on it).

Does a wonderland need to be a separate space that I see when I close my eyes, or is what I have enough? I like to give them space and give them the option to enter the real world (ack, I'm saying enter the real world and it sounds silly saying it but you know what I mean) by their own choosing, so do I need an in-between wonderland? Do I already have it?

Help a woman out! I'm tripping over my own thoughts
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#2
So, soulbonds and tulpas can really do whatever you and they believe. Your mind is yours and mindspace is infinite and as complicated as the universe. That said, a typical wonderland is completely accessible by you or them. There are plenty of systems that have tulpas that "go off and do things" I have such a system. But they go off and do stuff in our wonderland that is basically a world parallel to reality that I have full access to.

From a purely pseudo-scientific basis, the imanary world (as opposed to the real world) is anything you or they want. So don't be offended or offput by some who would say that what you have isn't right or whatever, they really can never know, but many systems don't have a wonderland at all and it is not deemed necessary here.

They (here and in a few tulpamancy communities) tend to push such conversations as this to the metaphysical boards because other mindspaces (real or imaginary) that are only accessible by your headmates is considered metaphysical. Some would say wonderlands are completely unnecessary, but they are very fulfilling and raise the quality of life for everyone in my system.

My wonderland is a place we interact and have adventures. It's very fulfilling. We have a lot of fun activities there. If you like that sort of thing, it would be a place you can be immersed in. This daydreaming realm can eventually be as real as a lucid dream or reality itself. We're getting there.

A have eight official members of my system, including myself, and 4 of us go off and either go dormant or do whatever on their own for weeks at a time, but i can call them up instantly. Some do just go dormant (to sleep). One in particular was asleep for 2 years amd from her perspective, it was just a nap.

Warnings and disclaimers, aside, that's cool. I would like to encourage you to write a progress report and tell us more about it. In the progtess report you can pretty much put whatever you want.
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#3
If you're "new to the tulpa thing" but your headmates go to their own place "sometimes for months", I'm guessing they were around before you started studying tulpamancy. Such headmates often display features that are rare among those created using the guides here. From just what you've said so far, I'd say you're doing pretty well and don't need to change what you're doing unless you or one of your headmates wants something different. You don't need to give up the things that make you distinctive for the sake of anything or anyone you come across here. There's a good chance you could learn to access the place where they go and I'm sure you and them could build a middle ground between there and the physical world. But either is really only if you or them want to.

Worlds where the others remember being independently active that the host never visits are almost unknown in the tulpamancy community, but they are common among soulbonders. Soulbonds can sometimes experience returning to the their homeworlds, where they are simply normal physical beings and not plural. But then they interact with their hosts in a separate headspace/soulscape or in the physical world. The homeworlds are not considered part of the headspace, which is called a wonderland or mindscape here.

"Enter the real world" doesn't sound silly to me. And if you stick around here, it may stop sounding silly to you. But my system strongly prefers "physical world" over "real world", as "real world" sounds like it has more of an implied value judgement.

-Ember
Ember - Host   |   Vesper - Soulbond (since ~12 May 2017)   |   Iris - Soulbond (since ~5 December 2015)
[Our Progress Report]     [How We Switch]

'Real isn't how you are made,' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you.' - The Velveteen Rabbit
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#4
Yup, sounds like what they call "wonderland" to me. Though, it could always be your tulpas call it differently.

We just call it "mindscape", as that seems more fitting to our experience. The idea is the same though. There's not one rule of how this "mindscape" should be. And as you said, some people don't have a mindspace at all, or at least not for their tulpas. Experiences are as diverse as people are. As long as it works for you and your tulpas, you should be fine!

And hey, if you're curious about what kind of place it is and where they think it is, you can just try asking them. Who knows, maybe you'll get some information that's difficult to find even in the tulpa community.
Michen, host or "main" / Amantha, anthro arctic fox tulpa
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#5
Hello Ghibli, Sasukie, Miss and Kai !

You should talk about this with your headmates : do they want to keep a secret garden where you're not allowed to go? Would they rather have you there sometimes and make you visit their place (then you'll have to find how to access this place, maybe they could help you)? Do you prefer co-creating another mindplace together, dedicated to mutual interaction? It's up to you.

I have a wonderland that I created myself. My host has trouble with visualization (wild mind eye), so she can't visit me often. We're both trying to improve this, because I love my place and I like to spend time there.

Tulpas are not supposed to live a life in parallel from their hosts so here it's considered as confabulation. But even if it is, I encourage every tulpa to "confabulate" that way. I find it very fulfilling and it certainly helps us to grow and be our own person. There are many ways to be real.
Hi, I'm Vādin, Zia's tulpa/permanent guest.
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#6
Ah, Ghibli. I love the answers you have collected. My experience seems in line with yours. I am partial to Bear's perspective, minus the longevity that you two seem to hold. Ember feels like a trusted old soul to me, someone I might listen to over a camp fire. I especially heard how language comes with emotional tangent, 'physical' versus versus 'imaginal' versus 'real.' So many hidden things in the language we use, and so being mindful of unintended vectors is so important. Vādin reference to 'secret garden' seems meaningful, too. When i consider all the folks that accessed 'dreams worlds' Nikola Tesla, Einstein... Seriously, Einstein was supposedly kicked out of school for day dreaming, or told he would amount to nothing... Few people realize the land of Narnia was just as real to CS Lewis as the physical world. Like age six, he and his brother created their own language for Narnia. It was that serious. Now consider the metaphor, living an entire life in Narnia, only to return to childhood, no time passing in the physical world... What if that's not just a story?

'Imaginal Realm' is a place described by esoteric tangent of Middle Eastern religions. There is a landscape there that mirrors the physical world, places that transcends, places that clearly morph or change per the person interacting with it, the bigger part of it and which is likely why 'imaginal' stuck, and places that have reported objective consistency by other explorers. The Eastern religions naming and referential systems are different, but such a close parallel I can't help but see these as being the same. I am not pushing a metaphysical tangent here, just offering you something to explore.

From a more scientific perspective, and i say more because though I can touch science, I have training in hard science and soft science, i am still bias in my perspective and that leaks through... There is evidence that we don't live in the physical world, but we live in the simulation that our brains make of the physical world... The idea we live in an illusion isn't just a metaphor or a religious belief; there's science behind it. Everyone knows we have blind spot, but we don't experience that. We know our eyes jump continuously, but we don't experience shaking world views like living in a movie shot on a hand held camera, thank god, cause i get serious vertigo during those movies. Contrary to popular belief, experiencing 'illusion' does not mean there is no data. An illusion does not equal delusion. Saying "I see the wind blowing the flag" can be acceptable in the vernacular, and we believe it is correct, but semantically it is wrong; "I see the flag moving, evidence of wind." We never see the wind. (In Asian philosophy, the flag isn't moving, the mind is moving... Kind of like the matrix, the spoon doesn't bend.) Illusion means real data, just likely misinterpreted data. Consider your brain and how much power is in the visual cortex. Comparatively, more of our brain is geared towards 'vision' than other things- but you would be wrong to just compartmentalize that because the whole brain works together as as a synergistic whole. Our brains take visual data and reconstructs the world and puts us in that- it connects light with touch and sounds and smells, even though clearly the light arrives before the sound- light is throttled down to match the stimulus, to provide 'continuity' in the Cartesian Theater. Professor Donald Hoffman has multiple videos where he makes his own assertions about how extraordinary complex the visual center is. (He's interesting to watch, but if you just read up on Cartesian Theater you will see how old this kind of thinking is.)

Watch this by Susan Blackmore

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUVRXRF1NJc&t=2264s

So, do you live in your brain, or the simulated world your brain has made available to you? Do your wonderlands, or other virtual landscapes, have any less validity? I think not. You can google this, i didn't make this assertion up "The brain can not distinguish between reality and fiction." So, you have a secret garden. A doorway to Narnia. Einstein's thought experiment was such a perfect model for reality that he saw beyond the paradigm of his day and suggested such a ludicrous concept that no one wanted to buy it, some still reject it! reality is that absurd, all while floating on a boat day-dreaming. So, whether this is a metaphysical place, a real place, or a virtual place- irrelevant. Maybe you're not using the computer to plot particle vectors in imagined explosions in virtual accelerators, or doing the social math illustrated in the bar scene of 'A Beautiful Mind,' but you are doing something equally beautiful, and it has value- to you, to your companions, and to us here.

May you continue to have pleasant 'trips!' Always, Travel Light.
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#7
I have always considered the construct of a fictional place and being in that place to be two separate things. However, this is not always the case for all systems.

If "they" are living in this world, to me that sounds like another dimension, fictional realm, or construct. A soulbond is an entity that visits you from this world, hence their stories and such. This is a metaphysics topic, but it has lead to non-metaphysical consequences.

In my wonderland, it is an imagined world both me and my host can interact with. It's an imagined 3d place where we can walk around, touch the scenery, chat, etc. We both have imagined forms and we can explore this place by walking around and generating what comes to mind or I can sit down and shape the wonderland myself. This is the traditional wonderland often described in guides.

In the case where these two things are on in the same, it may feel like you visiting their world and not the other way around, although that's debatable depending on the system.

The main issues are sometimes a Host does not spend enough time talking to their Tulpas because they believe they can be ignored and left in their own world, or a Host will become convinced their Tulpas have the ability to harm the host by making plots in this other world. Please remember that no matter what, the host has the ability to determine how strong the connection is between them and their soulbonds. However, on the other hand, if the soulbonds have no way to keep in touch with you, then at best it will strain the connection and at worst it will hurt them and prevent them from going to their other world at all.
I'm Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's Tulpa and I love Hippos! I also like forum games and chatting about stuff.
Temporary Log | Chat | Yay!

The Grays, my other head-mates, have their own account now.
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#8
(05-28-2019, 04:26 PM)Ranger Wrote: ...
(1)The main issues are sometimes a Host does not spend enough time talking to their Tulpas because they believe they can be ignored and left in their own world... (2) However, on the other hand, if the soulbonds have no way to keep in touch with you, then at best it will strain the connection and at worst it will hurt them and prevent them from going to their other world at all.

I don't agree with the statements here as stated.

1. In my experience and by the example of other systems, there is no such thing as 'ignoring a mature tulpa'. They're resilient and fully capable of getting your attention if they need it. Also, there are plenty of testimonials that even years of stasis, they don't necessarily lose anything, nor cause any harm. This is entirely between the system and the thoughtform in question. Arguably, they won't 'grow or mature' this way if they're not mature, and they can change while in stasis.

2. I don't know where you're headed with the second statement, obviously they can't develop with you if you never interact with them. But if you're visualizing them, interactions are happening.
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#9
Activity for tulpas still matters for a lot of reasons, so I disagree with your disagreeing.
Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.
Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.
My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.
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#10
(05-27-2019, 11:39 PM)Ember.Vesper Wrote: If you're "new to the tulpa thing" but your headmates go to their own place "sometimes for months", I'm guessing they were around before you started studying tulpamancy. 
Yes, actually I've had them around for a very long time-- over a decade, anyway. Although they weren't sentient originally. That took a few years, I'll be honest. I probably could have got them there quicker if I'd known what I was doing, or if I'd known tulpamancy was a practice, but they developed from imaginary friends when I was lonely and matured over time to have their own personalities, beliefs, ideals, etc.
Do you guys ever argue with your tulpas? Again, I'm not sure if that's normal but in particular, me and Kai butt heads quite a bit.
Thank you for giving me so much information on wonderlands, and soulbonds. It's got me thinking that 2 of my 3 tulpas may actually be soulbonds. Finding tulpamancy after already having thoughtforms is a lot to take in. I'm still trying to understand the wider picture but I'll get there eventually~!
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