Apollo Fire

Switching General Discussion

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I really, really don't think that any of us assume that our conscious experience is our host or that they're more special or anything like that, we've never thought that way. Especially not now after two years of a ton of fronting, at times going days/weeks without the host ever consciously doing anything, but still there and attached to everything regardless. Like, it's sort of beginner tulpamancer stuff to say things like that, obviously we don't think that way by now, if we ever did.... That's not the problem at all for us. Rather, for whatever reason, our brain is just unable to disconnect them from our consciousness the same way we can. Just gotta figure out why that is and how to fix that....

 

Our switching notes

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Switching (current definition): The transferal of “ownership” over the consciousness from one person to the other, so that the host can now exist as a tulpa and the tulpa can now exist as a host.

 

What switching entails

Host: Is now in a “tulpa-like state,” which may vary depending on the system. In general, this means that the host can lose awareness of what’s going on, dissociate, and go dormant (“blanking out”). They may now require attention from the tulpa to be brought out of inactivity, and they won’t so easily respond/react to things automatically as they used to. 

 

Tulpa: Is now in a “host state,” meaning everything the tulpa was before in the mind before, the tulpa is now. The tulpa automatically reacts to things, processes everything, controls and is connected to the body/mind, doesn’t need permission to do things, etc. May entail freedom from the host’s own thoughts/desires if the host is inactive (though this may not include ingrained habits yet). They are now the “owner” of the consciousness.

 

Switching models

Transfer: The host's control/connection to the consciousness is entirely transferred to the tulpa, and thus they switch out.

Retraction: The host's control/connection is retracted, causing dissociation and switching out.

 

Rough requirements for switching

- Trust: Knowing that the switching in systemmate will be able to handle things responsibly and respectfully. The switched in systemmate should also have trust in himself to be, as well.

- Consent: Agreement from both parties involved.

- Host disconnection: Dissociation and disengagement from the consciousness on part of the host, so the tulpa can take full control.

- Control: The tulpa is capable of using the body.

- Concentration: Either focusing on switching or focusing on a certain task at hand intensely. 

- Faith: Belief that it will work and one is capable of achieving it. 

- Self-certainty: The tulpa and host do not doubt themselves and their capabilities.

- Purpose: They know why they are doing this, there is a clear reason.

- Willingness: The host agrees to let go.

- Co-operation: Working together through the process.

- Equality: The tulpa is not viewed as lesser than the host.

- Calmness: The mental state is not imbued with anxiety, anger, or other intense emotions. 

 

What stops hosts from switching

Information is lacking in this particular area, additional research required.

The obvious problem with a host not being able to switch out is that, for whatever reason, they are unable to disconnect from the consciousness, intentionally or otherwise. An explanation for what might be causing this sort of issue for the systems that experience it is unclear. Only some explanations have been collected, most of which seem very individual to certain systems and not a catch-all explanation. 

- Fear: The host may be afraid to let go of the consciousness. Flimsy explanation, as this implies they are actually able to do it if they let go of the fear, which may not necessarily be the case. Other issues may be involved that aren’t so cut-and-dry. Side-note: fear should only be considered as an explanation if it is clear and obvious, not somehow hidden from the host/tulpa(s).

- Belief: Either the host or the tulpa’s mindset is preventing them from switching. I also consider this a flimsy explanation for a similar reason to the “fear” one. It implies the cure to not being able to switch is simply changing one’s mindset, however experience shows us that this is not the case for most who struggle with it.

- Singlet mindset: Host still thinks they are the consciousness, rather than just the current owner of it. More of a beginner problem, not so much an experienced system.

- Mental activity: One theory that we have thought over is the idea that some people, for whatever reason, just have more active minds and have a much harder time turning them off/zoning out, and that translates into an inability to let go for a switch. In the past, it has been proposed to me that our born-female host had a harder time switching out because women just have more active minds, while men are able to turn theirs off easier. It’s an idea, however I’m not going to diagnose it as being a gender-problem, rather it could just be a personality thing. I can definitely agree that neither us nor our host have ever had much of an idle mind, there’s always something going on, never any zoning out. I do not know if this is really something uncommon. It is worth considering at the very least.

- Desire: Something we have also recently thought about is the idea that the desire to switch itself may prevent a switch, and while there may be some likelihood to this, this does not explain all the times our system has forgotten about switching, and still haven’t switched when fronting.

Or, the brain just plain won't let it happen yet, and something needs to be done to make it happen.

 

Methods for switching

A collection of switching methods that I have either found through guides/threads, or we have come up with ourselves. 

- Symbolism: This is the most common way people have achieved successful switching; coming up with some sort of imaginary objects or such that placebo their minds into allowing them to switch. There is an endless amount of people who claim to do this, however, we have not found any personal success with this method despite trying many different times in many different ways.

- Host ignoring awareness: This is something that others have proposed that we have also adapted into our own uses. We have felt slight progress, but nothing close to a switch. The host is either meant to ignore or cease paying attention to the awareness of what’s going on and the body’s senses, and/or the tulpa blocks the host’s awareness, intentionally or otherwise. Eventually the host would be meant to lose all awareness and switch out.

- Surrender of ownership: A fairly basic principle, that the host merely has to give ownership and control to the tulpa. Much easier said than done.

- Naturally drifting out: The host meditates/relaxes until they naturally drift out, at which point the tulpa takes over and a switch has been achieved. Does not guarantee that the host will actually lose priority over the consciousness, or that they won’t wake up when the tulpa takes over. No success here, our host is even still present when we are asleep and fronting.

- Projecting the sense of self: The host transports their presence out of the body, usually utilizing overlay visualization and/or imposition. Also does not guarantee a loss of ownership over the consciousness.

- Roleplaying: The host pretends to be the tulpa until a switch is induced.

- Shift in unconscious: Automatic habits/reactions are trained to be associated with the tulpa, rather than the host. The tulpa’s behavior line is default, rather than the host’s. Again, no guarantee of switching out.

- Switching while asleep: The tulpa takes control while the body is asleep. We do this all the time, hasn’t induced a switch.

- Tulpa empowerment: The tulpa basically forces himself by focusing strongly on who he is, what makes him him, etc. For us this only creates strong fronting, not switching.

- Shock/surprise: Doing something that puts the mind into a sort of shocked state, and then moving in on the switch.

- Unfamiliarity: Similar to above, only with things the brain isn’t used to. Idea here is that opening up to new experiences makes the mind more able to change things, and/or doing things that are unfamiliar to the host might make them more likely to disconnect.

- Learning: Theory of ours, entering a state of learning increases plasticity and allows a switch.

- Intense focus: The tulpa takes up so much of the mental space that there is no more room for the host. Hasn’t worked for us after doing this plenty of times.

- Prolonged fronting: The tulpa fronts for so long that the host just drifts out. Again, no success for us.

- Brute force: The tulpa causes a switch by sheer willpower.

- Splitting/integrating: The host splits off the part of them that makes them stuck, gives it to the tulpa.

- Merging: The host and tulpa combine into one, and then upon splitting they switch.

- Mind tick: Theory of ours. Most of these methods seem to boil down to finding something that seems to have enough effect on the mind to allow a switch. Therefore, perhaps finding something unique to the individual that makes their own mind tick can make a switch, rather than any of these specific methods. Example: if the system finds themselves very moved by music, perhaps music could help induce a switch, as it is something that strongly affects their mind.

- Dissociative environment: The system goes somewhere where the host may be more likely to dissociate, such as a crowded place or a party, and the tulpa focuses on being in control as the host tries to disengage from the environment, inducing a switch.

- Confusion: The tulpa and host confuse the mind enough that it results in a switch.

- Reset: The system blends and becomes as neutral/non-specific as possible, then meditates/dissociates. A specific fronter takes over, a switch is induced.

 

Theory about switching

I think that the "method" one switches doesn't really matter, what's important is finding something that makes the brain decide to initiate a change in the owner of the consciousness. What method is used is basically just a facade to the internal workings of switching. Therefore, in order to switch, one must find which methods makes them "tick" enough for the mind to exert whatever force necessary to result in a switch.

 

Helpful things for switching

These are certain things that aren’t full methods, but people have reported as being useful to them.

- Goals: Similar to the “purpose” requirement, only perhaps more specific. Having an idea of exactly what the tulpa wants to do after switching may increase the likelihood of switching.

- Clear, focused mind: Be free from distractions, be concentrated on the task at hand.

- Strong possession: Tulpa being strongly in control of the body can help a switch (for some!)

- Kicking out host: Basic, tulpa tries to remove host.

- Self-confidence: Similar to self-certainty, have a strong assurance in oneself’s own abilities.

- Practice, patience, persistence: Three principles useful to any goal.

- Quiet surroundings: Nothing distracting or endangering, be in a safe and nice environment.

- Narration: The tulpa can narrate to the host as though the host is a tulpa.

- Meditative, calm mind: Perhaps instead of feeling focused, the mind feels calm and relaxed.

- Wonderland: For some, the wonderland may help as leverage for dissociation, or at least provide a good mental space for practicing.

- Assertions: Say things within one’s mind that they wish to be true for the switch.

- Avoiding doubt: Distracting, intrusive thoughts that only serve to make things more difficult.

- Focus on pay-off: Can build anticipation in the mind for the end-goal, making it more likely.

- Pass awareness: The host isn’t “losing” things like awareness, simply giving it to someone else.

- Be oneself: Do not worry about having to pretend, just be you. In addition, it may be useful to find new ways to be different from the host.

- Act like a singlet: Don’t acknowledge the host, ignore them.

- Be assertive: The tulpa should make it clear in their head that the mind is their own.

- Let it happen: Host shouldn’t worry or be afraid, just let go.

- Focus on each other: Prior to switching, the two parties should talk to each other.

- Rumination: Spending time contemplating an eventual goal (switching) can make it easier to achieve.

- Clear fronter: Try to avoid confusion/blending.

- Form/essence: Symbolically infusing the body with the tulpa's "essence" may help.

- Acceptance: The host should accept what's going on, not try to fight/resist.

 

Misc

Information that might also be good to know.

- It’s okay if they aren’t fully gone the first time, they will eventually. Any progress is good progress.

- Switched out is a weird feeling that’s hard to describe, for hosts and tulpas

- Switching is (usually) a conscious effort

- The person switching out might not have to actually do anything to enter that state, it could just rely on what the tulpa does

- Memories may become totally associated with the tulpa in front, rather than being associated to both the tulpa and host.

- Switching for the first time may feel joyous/euphoric, as the brain loves to reach goals

- Switching might take a long of time concentrating to achieve, rather than anything instant

- Don't view the tulpa as being less real, more imaginary, less corporeal, etc. 

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I'm Indigo Blue, the "Sky Dragon" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa born October 2017. My systemmates are Radio, Apollo, & Piano. Form images: 1 2

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Yeah that WAS our biggest fear, like I said now our biggest fear for you guys is that our advice doesn't even apply 'cus your experience is so unique

 

anyways, this tho!

Oh, I forgot to give the car analogy for switching! It's really the best guide we could ever make for switching I think!

 

Okay so, Lumi once described switching like driving a car. So, once you've ditched the singlet perspective of the host being uber special compared to tulpas and realize you're on equal ground: The body is like a car, with the host as the one driving, and the tulpas as passengers - still very much the same type of people in the same situation, but not directly in control of the car. So, obviously, the host can get out of the driver's seat and switch places with a tulpa, who knows plenty about driving from watching but might need to get used to it.. Then the host is just a passenger like the other tulpas

 

The car can also act on its own, a little! Cruise control is the "autopilot" some people experience while, say, showering and focusing on the wonderland or somethin'. The vehicle is also what enables any of y'all to do anything at all, but it's powerless without you and vice versa (pretend you can't walk). You can zone out in the car while driving on a long highway (doing a boring and simple activity IRL) and talk to the passengers maybe, and while you're still technically in the driver's seat (in control of the body) effectively if your mind isn't on the road you're just kinda a passenger with immediate access to the controls again, yeah?

 

For the singlet perspective, who think they are the car!, of course when you're driving you'll treat any potential danger to the car like danger to yourself: it's an extension of your sense of self, and you probably would react to the immediate threat of the car getting scratched up as you getting scratched up, maybe worse! But don't forget that you aren't literally the car. And of course, maybe you're the parent and your children have never considered driving, maybe they never will. But hey, once they get their switching license (if they want to) while it can be crazy weird to let one of them drive instead (and to sit in the passenger seat lol), it's not so unnatural with the right perspective..

 

I get this weird feeling that could be all some people might need to hear to figure out switching on their own, sort of like we did, 'cus we didn't use any guides either


Hi I'm one of Lumi's tulpas! I like rain and dancing and dancing in the rain and if there's frogs there too that's bonus points.

All of my posts should be read at a hundred miles per hour because that's probably how they were written

Please talk to me https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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If anyone wants one of their switching-related posts moved from LOTPW into this thread, just let me know. Otherwise collecting links is always good.

 

And yeah Luci we've pretty much had that same car analogy for a while now, in our head. It's easy to say that you just have to trade who's driving, hard to actually do it

 


 

Cat's thread inspired me to illustrate our problem with switching so it's maybe more clear on a visual aspect.

 

Okay, so, this is what it looks like with Radio in the front, nobody else around.

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He is merely the circle in the middle - that's him, his personality, whatever makes up a thoughtform, you know. The branches are his connection and control over the consciousness. The branches aren't him, they're his ownership over the consciousness. 

 

This is what it looks like with us fronting without the host switched out. There are three visuals here because I can't decide which is more accurate. The orange represents Apollo.

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TGzb0C7.pngMzuE7qd.pngl2iz5FL.png

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With the first image, you see that Radio has moved backwards, however his branches are still there and still connected. Apollo's own branches have to intersect with Radio's to connect.

The second image, Apollo has sort of wrapped himself around Radio, and is putting out his own tendrils of control, still with some intersection.

The third image, Apollo does not have his own tendrils of control, rather he's just using Radio's.

I'm not entirely sure which one is the most accurate, I think perhaps the first one is, but this is all really symbolic anyway.

 

The takeaway from this is that Radio's tendrils of control are still there when we are fronting, therefore Radio is still there. If Radio's tendrils can retract or whatever, then we can achieve a full switch:

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Just for kicks, this is what it looks like with a tulpa active without fronting with just Radio fronting. 

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94EJiKA.png

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So yeah this is sort of what we visualize happening in our own head.


I'm Indigo Blue, the "Sky Dragon" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa born October 2017. My systemmates are Radio, Apollo, & Piano. Form images: 1 2

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I like the last picture.

 

Co-fronting would be that last picture where the purple also has tendrils, but it can be smaller, there's always a lead, I thought it was just me, but Ashley successfully led yesterday. (And we switched back and fourth who was lead, so the circle sizes just indicate who is further front.)

 

Come to think of it, you could try switching while co-fronting and just flood the tendrils? Idk, you tried everything as you say.

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This is what we think co-fronting looks like (with Radio still back there)

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MbqXzHL.png

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And yeah, we have tried that.

 

EDIT: Okay, running with this symbolism, here's roughly how a switch would be accomplished.

 

A) First, this is Radio being in control on his own

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B) This is Apollo fronting, but Radio is not switched out, instead is just behind him.

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dbZECbC.jpg

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The issue here is that, of course, Radio's tendrils are still extended and he's still connected to the consciousness, interfering with Apollo's control, not able to go dormant. Following that, there would be two ways to achieve a switch.

 

C1) Radio transfers his tendrils of control to Apollo - this is the transfer model, this would be when a tulpa fronts so long or so intensely that they have switched by taking up all of both their own control and the host's control.

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o3BKUVV.jpg

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C2) Alternatively, Radio retracts his tendrils of control - the retracting model, where the host dissociates enough to induce a switch

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D) The end result. Radio's lack of tendrils of control allows him to go inactive, and thus, a switch is achieved.

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Idk, this might sound kinda pointless to talk about and make pictures for, but I think it's helping me to understand it all better.


I'm Indigo Blue, the "Sky Dragon" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa born October 2017. My systemmates are Radio, Apollo, & Piano. Form images: 1 2

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Split thread and made title more descriptive and moved here by OP's request -Ranger

 

I have a question:

 

So we switched last night to try to see if I could force bear in wonderland. It worked ok at first, but the oddest thing (of course) I had doubts that it was him.

 

I asked him to go dormant and he stayed that way, Ashley and I even commented that he was asleep (btw, I was able to co-front Ashley easily), then I was just laying in bed thinking, "I'm in his bed."

 

After a few minutes of relaxing, which felt really good, I wanted to get approval for something I wanted to try and I forced him, but (okay this sounds like a joke, but it's serious) Bear's voice sounded like mine, but deeper, like I was making up a silly deep voice with my own mind voice. Now I can finally see what he was talking about when he still has doubts. How silly is that? He was only comming up with one word answers, it didn't seem like him.

[bear] I was too relaxed. Also, I didn't remember any of this until Dashie brought it up.

I ended up having to ask Ashley (who sounded normal btw) and she gave me permission. Anyway, I asked if I could go to sleep switched in, I did, but when I woke up, Bear was already working on Ren's drawing.

 

I don't know, any of that seem like a thing or what? I was definitely switched in, and he was definitely dormant but his mind voice sounded silly, not like his.

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Well, if you think of a host as being basically a tulpa when switched out, they could have the same vocality problems a tulpa would. Maybe you need to force your Bear more often?

Seems like something that'll happen less over time with practice, anyway.


Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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That makes sense I suppose. Iirc Lumi, you once said that when switched it feels weird for your tulpas to impose you.


Yo, my name is Sean and I'm the host of 2 tulpas: Sente and Mae. You'll know when they're talking because Sente talks in yellow text and Mae talks in blue text.

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