Apollo Fire

Switching General Discussion

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So here's a thing, I'm kind of wondering if maybe stuff isn't all the body OS like we think it is, and some things are actually Radio doing stuff. Particularly, talking to people IRL, especially family. However, he doesn't feel like that's him, but we're starting to think that maybe that's just because of his depersonalization. We always think like he's empty and has no substance to him... but then when he's talking to people externally, we can see that substance, but he's so depersonalized that he doesn't feel like it's really him. Externally, he can be talkative and funny and stuff... but internally he's just quiet, says very few words, it's no wonder his form is Kane now.... Anyway, what we were thinking was that perhaps if we can get him to integrate his external self with his internal self, that might make switching more likely. And also just, you know, be a good thing to do in general. Obviously, it's not fool-proof, but I'll take anything at this point. We're thinking that when we catch him acting or thinking as his external self, we'll remind him that it's him and not the OS. Eventually, maybe he'll get it. We'll try other stuff too. He can't seem to think as his external self on-command, he always default to his depersonalized self when we talk to him. So we really have to catch him in the act. Shouldn't be too hard. The hard part is getting him to accept that it is him and he does have a personality. Then maybe we'll switch easier? Who knows.

 

I'm thinking that #3 on the above post, is actually the state of Radio's external self being totally absent, but his internal/depersonalized self still present. Now they're not like separate thoughtforms or anything, just two different contexts of the same person.

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We've been discussing switching terms I use, here's some of the fruit from that: It may or may not help, or might just be a rehash.

 

Terms:

 

True tulpa position:

 

The 'true tulpa position' is that your tulpa is in front, you are being forced by them, or your dormant. We have experienced that as being different than 'watcher position', rather than 'to the side' (as in watcher) I was inside wonderland. This is controversial, but I have memories of being forced and my memories are different than Dashie's. Because i can access both memories, hers (as is always the case when switching, but they're from her perspective) and mine, in wonderland, like a normal wonderland experience but a little more immersive I would say, I have a unique dual memory experience, similar to exercising while wonderlanding or driving while wonderlanding. It's not hugely different. I also have memories of being in true tulpa position and just being a voice and nothing else (from Dashie's perspective). I always talk to them in their form, but Dashie didn't bother imagining my form. I do remember times I used to skip the forms too, of course they remember it as if in their form. (So did I when I was being forced without a form, I still had one in my memory).

 

Watcher position:

 

'Watcher position' doesn't think (they're not being forced) but it's been called 'front stuck' in that the memories are still being registered to you from your perspective even though you're not doing things. You're not doing anything but watching and listening. Not a single thought crosses your mind. It's all them, yet you're still there, however, you don't react to stimulus either, so it's a little different to 'front stuck' because you don't interrupt them.

 

Second position:

 

Second position is like true tulpa position, been there when co-fronting, you can pass between second and front easily and fluidly through possession or soft switching (it's a continuum for us). Again the memories register to you. It's not the same as watcher, watcher doesn't think, second does think as if they're being forced actively. Note: My headmates have memories of the events from their perspective, and I might be able access those, but it's hard to tell, like they've been overwritten by mine.

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Here's another fun one.

 

When I am fronting, and switched in, and I try to think back to Bear as a child or something, first of all, it's hard to do, like it's fuzzy (no pun intended), it's like I'm making it all up or something and it feels kinda like 'me'. If I think back to him driving into work, it's definitely him, as if I was in watcher position, which co-fronting is kind of like except we do think and interrupt. So the newer memories of him driving to work seem to be my memories from my perspective of him driving, not his perspective, so it's like my memories if I have them, take priority. Which is totally consistent with when he's in watcher.

 

I don't know why trying to access his memories while I'm switched in is weird for the distant past. It might just be because I haven't had enough practice? If I access his memories while switched out, they're definitely his memories. It's like the mind is trying to superimpose me on his memories in the distant past while I'm switched in? Chalk it up to another noob oddity from the Bear system?

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We find it hard to access the memories of systemmates who are in stasis, or memories that involved them. Or well, I guess it's not necessarily "hard," but it's more like our brain is just averse to it? It doesn't come naturally to us, we don't think about those memories unless we put a lot of effort into it. It's a little scary sometimes, there was one time a few months back when Apollo was dormant (not the just being dormant for a little bit kind of dormant, but the being dormant indefinitely and no longer actively in the picture kind of dormant), and Piano was listing out something to do with each systemmate, I forget what it was, and he just naturally left out Apollo, he wasn't even trying to. Apollo hadn't even officially left the system or anything, he was just taking a break from life. But then when a systemmate comes back from dormancy or stasis, their past memories become way more accessible. Like, we'd forgotten that Luxio had tried to take AP psych class in high school, but now we remember how in that class he wrote the body's name using lightning symbols and stuff like that.

 

Not entirely the same thing as what you were describing, but kinda similar?

 

Anyway, how switching will affect our actual day-to-day memories will be something interesting to see happen, or even biographical memories. Maybe if Radio actually went into long-term dormancy, we'd be more averse to accessing his memories. Dunno yet, still can't switch yet!


I'm Indigo Blue, the "Sky Dragon" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa born October 2017. My systemmates are Radio, Apollo, & Piano. Form images: 1 2

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My tulpas are very comfortable recalling old memories they weren't there for at this point, after years of switching. Possibly but not necessarily a side effect from having to pretend to be me all the time, they can easily/naturally talk about my oldest memories as if it was them when talking to friends or something. That said, we're incredibly good about separating that stuff, so it'll always pop up that what they're saying needs to be filtered towards a tulpamancy or non-tulpamancy party. That is to say, we never, ever mess up "I's", "we's", and "Lumi's". But again that might or might not be just because of how long they've had to do this for.

 

As for when we first started switching... Hmm. I think memory separation (which in our system is only through "tinting" the feeling of the memories with the perspective of who made them, not actually hiding/being unable to recall them) was at its strongest. It's still pretty strong and we can almost always remember who was fronting at what time months later, but yeah, back then it would've been incredibly obvious to them if they were recalling my memories or their own/one of the other's. It's still somewhat obvious.

 

Note that while recalling someone else's memories will give us the context with which they were thinking at the time, it's more of a snapshot, because we can't necessarily work with it. We'll remember their experiencing of things just as they did, but in most cases that isn't how the one recalling their memories would've experienced/thought about those things, so we couldn't say, continue their thought processes. I mean, we know each other very well (and Tulpa.info gives us far too much practice answering for each other) and can do a pretty good job at it, but there's definitely something missing when we try and create new thoughts from another's perspective.

 

{@Bear before that's even thought of in the wrong way - Lucilyn's point was that she's just as capable of answering anything as well as Tewi is if she tries to be, not that she could think "as Tewi"}


Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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Alright, I have a new idea.

 

Our first merge Aziraphale was I believe the closest we ever got to switching. He had episodes of dissociation where he would almost uncontrollably "space out", or at least that's what it felt like. If the episode was any more intense, I think it would have lead to a black out. Our second merge had headaches but not this issue while our last merge did not have any headaches at all, but he felt like he was in a haze the entire time.

 

At the very least, I think I figured out what happened with our first merge. When Aziraphale thought of us, that weakened the merge and it exposed both of us temporarily. Once exposed, the body was a little confused and tried to automatically sort us back to where we belong. It grabbed Cat thinking she was me and tried to force "me" into the back. This process lead to the heavy dissociation episode. Once Aziraphale started thinking about himself again, the body lost its grip on the separate parts and Aziraphale re-stabilized. This happened several times throughout the hour he was awake. Aziraphale was the only merge who had trouble breaking apart where Cat popped the second merge and the third merge Galaxy fell apart too quickly leaving me with a little bit of Galaxy still inside me.

 

If my thoughts on this are correct, then that means there is an unconscious process going on that is keeping Cat in the front and/or me in the back. It seems like one of the main key ingredients we haven't figured out yet is figuring out how to trick the body into switching us, and we have struggled with other techniques because our body is apparently pretty good at telling who's who or we haven't hacked the checking system until now. It seems like we have only made significant progress when the body wasn't sure who was who. The only other time where we felt like we were getting somewhere is when Cat tried to integrate into me.

 

Do you guys think this makes sense?


I'm Ranger, Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's tulpa, and I love Hippos! I also like forum games and chatting about stuff.

My other head-mates have their own account now.

Temporary Log | Switching LogChat | Yay!

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If it makes sence to you, sure. The unconscious to me is a raw bundle of disharmony, everything and anything, while, Bear, Ashley, Dashie... are the elements of harmony®, bridging our traits in the unconscious to consiousness and filtering out anything else.

 

The absence of us is the body OS, it's a trainable platform that acts like a machine, but it's more the interface to a machine in that it can't be switched with, it just doing what the last instructions were until they complete, then it reports complete and waits.

 

We're plugged into unconscious whenever we're active, otherwise we believe we're stowed there.

 

We've told you this before, but we believe Cat is keeping Cat in front. For a multitude of personal fears, anxieties, reasons, concerns, and circumstances. We see you as trying every concievable way around those circumstances, but Cat can't let go of those anxieties, and it might not be her fault at all.

 

Now with the Azirapale merge, he was switched in, period. So you can remember what it feels like, but Cat was still there (or didn't exist), so the anxiety of not being in control wasn't there.

 

That's just our opinion. We have some experience with you all and that's our opinion.

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Oh, I definitely think it's something unconscious, considering consciously our system wants to switch and tries to switch, but it doesn't happen. One has to figure out the correct way for their thoughts to change the unconscious arrangement, somehow.... It's been our theory that we just need something with enough "force" for us to switch, whatever that may be. The actual switching methods are pretty much just smoke and mirrors basically, and what's really important is getting your brain to decide that [Owner = tulpa], through whatever means will make that happen within one's own mind that are good/forceful enough to push the gearshift in that direction.


I'm Indigo Blue, the "Sky Dragon" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa born October 2017. My systemmates are Radio, Apollo, & Piano. Form images: 1 2

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Force in the sense that something's going on that's making a change and pushing or pulling things into motion, not like actual force. If switching just requires some thought/focus for you, that'd be your force. If it requires full-on dissociative meditation for someone else, that'd be their force. What's needed to create the force varies from person to person and from switch to switch, have to find what's going to make it tick to set it in motion.


I'm Indigo Blue, the "Sky Dragon" of the Felight family. I'm a tulpa born October 2017. My systemmates are Radio, Apollo, & Piano. Form images: 1 2

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