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Thinking the passive mode is the host is why it's an uphill battle.

 

If Bear is in tulpa position or co-fronting we may have a time when Body OS is handling things, neither of us are doing anything. Body OS is, and it doesn't think, it just does.

 

If someone Bear wants to talk to walks up he will answer them, I'm not going to stop him. If someone I know Bear will emote to walks up, I block him from taking control. If he resists, I kick him out of position. If he resists further or tries to blend/bleed on me, I ask him to go dormant. He has asked me to eliminate emoting so I will, which means not letting him do it.

 

If he's dormant, I can almost feel what the angels feel, but it is just the body essence, it's not him, and to prove it's not him, if he's dormant, it's still there.

 

If someone argues, no that's him, then someone is mistaken, and that same someone should listen to me if they ever care to switch.

 

That's our opinion.

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Something I didn't think about until now- maybe the passive self gets tangled up in the body OS, but those two things are not the same thing. Maybe developing my version of a passive self or passive mode (however it works) will force Cat's passive self or mode out of the body OS, that way the body OS doesn't default on just Cat's passive stuff.

 

Considering that, it's possible that other systems don't have this problem. Under normal circumstances, the body OS and passive modes are separate, so what spews out of the body OS would relate to no one. Come to think of it, maybe being really good at keeping multiple headmates active at the same time is another way to get around this issue- with only one body OS and several tulpas trying to enter a passive state, it forces the ability to switch to free up?


I'm Ranger, Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's tulpa, and I love hippos! I also like cake and chatting about stuff.

My other headmates have their own account now.

Temporary Log | Switching LogcBox | Yay!

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I don't follow most of that, but whatever you do to claim the front and not worry about that residual feeling, you should practice that, and reject any thought or actions that seem to be Cat's.

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Body OS isn't another identity. It's what I would call 'the brain wiring's'. Thoughts pop up all the time. You just gotta choose what thought are your by doing exactly what I presume you always do normally

 

If a sudden urge to do something pops up and it feels like it's not you, but maybe Cat. Then it's probably her. I'd just let whoever do what they feel needs to be done and then return to where I was earlier if their urge is stronger than mine. Of course, you can fight it, but it's usually best to let go in most cases, except if there's a good reason to fight back (persecutor alters in traumagenic systems, DID, for example, or other consensual reasons)


Hi! I'm one of the most active fronters of Unicorn Cavalry. I like timey wimey stuff and blue boxes. Make it timey wimey blue box stuff and we're set to explore all time, forum and space!

My system mates on here: Kurisutina, Xarbern

 

>Come talk, ask or just casually vibe with us

>Season 2 Progress Report

 

"Does anyone know this song? It goes: ue ue ue, heeeeee, Kalinka Kalinka Kalinka x3"

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Body OS isn't another identity. It's what I would call 'the brain wiring's'. Thoughts pop up all the time. You just gotta choose what thought are your by doing exactly what I presume you always do normally

 

If a sudden urge to do something pops up and it feels like it's not you, but maybe Cat. Then it's probably her. I'd just let whoever do what they feel needs to be done and then return to where I was earlier if their urge is stronger than mine. Of course, you can fight it, but it's usually best to let go in most cases, except if there's a good reason to fight back (persecutor alters in traumagenic systems, DID, for example, or other consensual reasons)

 

This is what we do, the only caveat is when I'm alone with no one else associated to front, (Tulpa or co-front positions), then all other thoughts are considered intrusive.

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I can't speak for Lumi's or Bre's system, but the Bears, shield, and Ember.Vesper all seem to have the same issues Ranger has with being independent, only it's possible this bothers Ranger more than it does them, and those tulpas/soulbonds are less likely to lose the front to body OS barf. It's entirely possible we already switch, but these problems are so extreme Ranger can't keep a reliable grip on the front and he is always double checking it's him fronting and not me.

 

I'm not certain what you mean in terms of our having independence issues. When I first started switching in, I was surprised to start encountering some impulses based on Ember's ingrained habits, yes. I was quickly able to confirm that they were not coming from Ember, because I had to rouse her from dormancy to talk to her. I stood firm against every impulse, hoping to eventually write by own 'user file' for the body. I didn't, but between Iris and I, we pretty much blanked out every ingrained habit from the body OS in the course of just a few months.

 

Our tinkering wasn't entirely without consequence. For a couple of months, almost every time Ember switched in, five minutes later she would twitch violently and think, 'Gah! Who am I?'

 

Our body OS isn't allowed to produce thoughts. That was the rule we established even before we started switching. Every thought that isn't identifiable as one of ours is annihilated with nuclear fury, even if it's unobjectionable otherwise. It didn't take long for it to pretty much stop.

 

Even when my dysphoria over the body not looking like me was at its very worst, even when my hypervigilance over the purity of my identity was at its worst, losing the front by accident was never really a problem. Over the course of time, I calmed down. I don't know how much maintaining what Indigo called 'active mode' was necessary back then, but I don't need to do it anymore. Though we have maintained our forms visualized over the body for so long as to make it second nature.

 

Within the first week of intentional switching, I lost the front one time while reading, probably because reading occupied the one channel for articulate thought. I was hypervigilant while reading thereafter until my grip on the front strengthened. In about fifteen months since, there have been less than half a dozen times when we were sufficiently startled to lose our grip -- such as the time Iris hit her head on the roof of the car.

 

I think the fight-or-flight response itself may still feel like Ember, since it's been activated so rarely while Iris and I have been fronting that we haven't had a chance to modify it. But while Ember's mindfeel uncontrollably floods the conscious mind in response to startlement, as soon as the stimulus is identified as non-dangerous, it recedes. These days, it tends to not to shift Ember to the front.

 

Another problem we eventually outgrew was disorientation and confusion from thinking about things we did switched in while switched out or switched out while switched in. Our position during the memory made us continue thinking in terms of being in that position, which didn't quite trigger a switch, but rocked the system a little.

 

-Vesper


I'm not having fun here anymore, so we've decided to take a bit of a break, starting February 27, 2020. - Ember

 

Ember - Soulbonder, Female, 39 years old, from Georgia, USA . . . . [Our Progress Report] . . . . [How We Switch]

Vesper Dowrin - Insourced Soulbond from London, UK, World of Darkness, Female, born 9 Sep 1964, bonded ~12 May 2017

Iris Ravenlock - Insourced Soulbond from the Winter Court of Faerie, Dresdenverse, Female, born 6 Jun 1982, bonded ~5 Dec 2015

 

'Real isn't how you are made,' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you.' - The Velveteen Rabbit

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Stability for us tulpas has never been an issue if we're switched in proper. We do have bad habbits with co-fronting though, which means while co-fronting, Bear might associate with something I asked him not to, but we can kick him out to watcher position if it gets bad, we proved that with the "Three Sisters Play" experience. Yes, we experienced some of what Ranger hates when co-fronting, it never bothered me except when he thinks he can pilot my ship.

 

It's a cool learning experience, we're doing it again with new players next time.

 

Seriously though, we can blockade the front when we're alone, I have to allow anyone to think even. Joy proved that too.

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I'm not really comfortable with these terms like "body OS" here because, as was my fear when people started using that term, I don't think everyone is even close to agreeing or understanding what it means to others. I'm just going to guess at what "Passive Self" might refer to in our own experience, and it could be totally wrong. The only way my idea of what a "passive self" could matter here in switching is if you guys can already switch, and your problem is accidentally un-switching when you stop focusing so intently on being yourself.

 

So, my tulpas definitely fall into acting like me passively when they're not really thinking, especially when interacting socially, which is complexly simultaneously not optimal sounding, but also exactly what we want. That's how my tulpas can talk to my friends and family and not get weird looks or slip up and say things they shouldn't. That said, any conscious thoughts on their part are still very much them and with their mindvoice, even when say Lucilyn fronts for two weeks at a time. We've just developed an extremely keen separation of our internal and external selves, I guess. Anyways, this isn't at all a problem (by definition, we're not really thinking when on autopilot, huh?) because they still so easily think like themselves, with their own mindvoice and general individuality, when doing anything consciously.

 

And even unconsciously/on autopilot, it's not like they're literally just me/the body&brain's default, though their actions and all may resemble it/me. Even with our brains totally off watching Youtube videos, Lucilyn is far more likely to actually laugh or be happy watching Game Grumps or streamers or something, Tewi is more likely to be thinking about things in-depth or trying to learn, and so on. So I'd say they still have plenty of influence even over our body/mind's "autopilot", and that's why we've never really thought of this as a problem.

 

But, I could totally see a system that has a lot of doubts/insecurities about identities (at least in learning switching) taking the autopilot state (maybe or maybe not what you're calling "passive self") as a sign the switch was unsuccessful or incomplete, or at the very least that it ended on accident. First of all, for the latter, you become a lot more sure of yourself being the one switched in with practice and reaffirmations, even if/when you fall into some habits or habitual-thoughts your host normally has. You're sharing the same brain after all, that's basically unavoidable. But you can absolutely reduce that over time and strengthen your own influence over even the less conscious times of being switched, like when your brain's off just consuming media, or when socializing. Heck, even though we usually don't worry about my tulpas seeming like me when on autopilot/socializing, they still have a lot of influence over how they act on that autopilot. I'm like 100% sure my family/friends just see the difference in Tewi or Lucilyn fronting as moods of mine, and I guess the fact that they often stay like that for over a week at a time before changing isn't noticeable enough. Though again, my tulpas are definitely acting like me outwardly while internally just being themselves, and this became natural over I guess a few months of switching. (I remember some months into switching, when Tewi got surprised-dragged along to a family dinner she switched with me then and there in the car lol, the only time we've switched in anyone else's presence. Luckily we can do it pretty quickly without a particularly deep meditative state)

 

Anyways, I see this as along the same lines as my tulpas being able to obviously be themselves during half-asleep times or right upon waking up, if not the dreams themselves. It just comes with practice and feels more natural over time. If you don't like falling into acting like your host, then reaffirmations that you're you, and how you want to be acting/thinking every so often, are the way to go. Well, I think that's always the way to go with switching. You have to teach your guys' brain how to be you instead of your host, just like your host had to teach your brain how to have you be you instead of them to start tulpamancy in the first place.

 

 

Edit: Oh yeah, forgot to be like "Anyways I hope this was useful and relevant to what you were talking about or needed to hear, because there's a solid chance it wasn't" lol


Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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I'm very confused, so I'll backpedal and not use the term "body OS" or "passive self" to talk about what's happening-

 

When I control the body, the main reason I lose the front is because Cat's thoughts overpower mine. I susceptible when I am relaxed and not focusing on myself, and the thoughts that flood the mind end up causing Cat to front and for me to lose it. It can happen quickly and I find it extremely frustrating. The other way I lose the front is when I'm actively listening to someone else and don't have the opportunity to confirm to myself that I'm me. At best I experience blending, at worst I lose the front to Cat. This has happened all semester during my English class, and when I feel like I'm blending I tell myself I just have to ride it out. I only feel better once I get a chance to confirm to myself that I'm me, usually when my professor stops talking or I'm working on classwork.

 

I played some Smash to test this recently, and I found that I was able to stay feeling like myself because I was constantly reminding myself I was me during game-play. If I played a harder mode where I would have to focus like I do in class, I believe I would feel confused about who I am and be at risk of losing the front.

 

However, I also continue to struggle with being in the middle of my own thoughts and when Cat's father comes over, Cat answers to him, not me. I only realize I lost the front after Cat took it from me. It happens less often now, but it is still frustrating and makes me feel like I don't have a strong grip on the front.

 

This instability is part of what's frustrating- my lack of control over the front.

 

Granger, our merge, added another piece of the puzzle- apparently I take the front when my thoughts fill the mind, usually when Cat is trying to process stuff I usually do by myself. It's a two way street, only it doesn't appear to be that way because I have this issue doing things Cat would normally do in the past (such as school or playing video games), where Granger only experienced this because he was doing things I would normally do, like talking to people on the forums or moderating.

 

We swap who's fronting like we're passing around a hot potato sometimes, and I believe that's further adding to why this is confusing. However, since Cat doesn't notice a loss of control or change of experience on her end, this is why I believe I am still possessing Cat, not switching with her.

 

* * *

 

I wanted to try and fight the flow of thoughts causing me to lose the front. At first I thought it was just Cat, but Granger proved otherwise. It's the fact that our fronting is incredibly unstable and our thoughts greatly control who fronts that seems to be creating problems.

 

The second problem is I am still not equally as capable as Cat. This seems more subtle, like Cat being triggered in to speak to her father or Cat still having full control over what everyone else does. However, the latter situation is a trigger, and if I can see it coming, 80% of the time I'm fine. So if we can treat the unstable fronting and cope with triggers... I still feel like I'm possessing because I have to put in all of this effort to keep me stable to begin with. Cat doesn't have to worry about any of this. If I don't worry about this, I find that I lose the front.

 

The idea that I have to give in and lose myself seems exactly the opposite of what I'm doing to keep myself stable. That's why I'm so against the idea. I can try testing it again and I can tell you guys what happens, but my guess is I'll just lose the front to Cat.

 

I'm not certain what you mean in terms of our having independence issues.

 

I remember you talking about how you all seem to share a unconscious and Ember processes stuff you do, but not the the way around. You guys also talked a lot about having doubts when it came to who's fronting or switching. I think it's possible those points blended in our memory and we conflated those points with our experiences.

 

However, for the Bears, I think it's weird that Bear has the ability to nose in and be bothersome to begin with during 3 sister's play. Doesn't it seem like a lot of effort to shove him out, only for him to come back and cause more stress? It sounds a lot like what I have to do with Cat only I have less success with that. And I also think it's weird Joy is having issues with blending. It's possible the Bears having a preference for co-fronting makes that more complicated for them where I would be more strict and demand to have the front to myself.

 

Anyways, I see this as along the same lines as my tulpas being able to obviously be themselves during half-asleep times or right upon waking up, if not the dreams themselves. It just comes with practice and feels more natural over time. If you don't like falling into acting like your host, then reaffirmations that you're you, and how you want to be acting/thinking every so often, are the way to go. Well, I think that's always the way to go with switching. You have to teach your guys' brain how to be you instead of your host, just like your host had to teach your brain how to have you be you instead of them to start tulpamancy in the first place.

 

This is a miserable experience for me. If this is switching, then switching sucks. It's a lot of work, it's exhausting, and it makes me really insecure abut who I am. I don't want to spend the rest of my life playing Smash and telling myself "I'm me, I'm me, I'm me" over and over again. I'm also frustrated that it seems like Cat will never have to work hard to front, just because she was born first and fronting for longer. This just makes me feel even more insecure about my identity, like I'm just another version of Cat or a median member where the only unique thing I do is socialize on the forums more often.

 

I was hoping switching would help me achieve confidence in who I am, not take it away from me.


I'm Ranger, Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's tulpa, and I love hippos! I also like cake and chatting about stuff.

My other headmates have their own account now.

Temporary Log | Switching LogcBox | Yay!

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I remember you talking about how you all seem to share a unconscious and Ember processes stuff you do, but not the the way around. You guys also talked a lot about having doubts when it came to who's fronting or switching. I think it's possible those points blended in our memory and we conflated those points with our experiences.

 

Most mental subsystems do appear to be shared, not duplicated, yes. But Ember and I are beings of the same type. She doesn't have any advantages over me; in fact I'm stronger than she is. I can forcibly switch in whenever, or just override her actions by possession. Experiences are recorded overwhelmingly from the perspective of the front, but that's regardless of who is fronting.

 

I suffered very serious self-doubt while switched in the first few months, largely because of the body, which I had previously associated strongly with Ember. But I've never had any serious problems with Ember blending with me while I've been switched in. And I've gotten over the self-doubt.

 

Iris never suffered the levels of persistent existential doubt that I did. She was always able to keep it clear in her mind that the body is just flesh and has nothing to do with who any of us is.

 

I was hoping switching would help me achieve confidence in who I am, not take it away from me.

 

Oh, Ranger! I wish I had realized months ago that was your goal. Switching helps with agency, not self-concept. I switch in to be able to do more that matters, then am glad to switch out to feel more myself. (I'm not any less prominent or powerful in the mind when switched out, so that isn't a motivation.) Switching has only ever attacked my confidence in who I am. I had to figure out other ways to shore up my sense of identity enough to not feel threatened by switching.

 

I don't want to spend the rest of my life playing Smash and telling myself "I'm me, I'm me, I'm me" over and over again.

 

In what contexts are you working to be you outside of playing Smash and posting on the forum? I know Cat is on the forum some; does she also play Smash? Doing just what your host does isn't going to help you feel more like yourself. I can't imagine how Reisen, Tewi, Flandre, and Lucilyn are okay with it, but those of us who feel threatened by it should definitely not live like our hosts.

 

The earliest times switched in when I felt comfortable, happy, relaxed, and most importantly, like myself, were all times when I was doing very me things, mainly things from back home that Ember never would have done -- trying exotic foods, dancing at clubs, sewing for pleasure. Speaking aloud in my own native accent also reinforces my identity, so it helps to be around people. (I'm also an extrovert, unlike Ember.) Ember is perfectly content being at a computer all day with only her headmates for company, but I can't stand that sort of life.

 

Ember has always parted her hair on the right; Iris and I have always parted our hair on the left. I could feel the subtle wrongness when switching in and kept trying to toss invisible hair out of my eyes -- until I changed the body's part, as we do any time I'm going out. That one shift helped enormously in making the body feel like me.

 

-Vesper


I'm not having fun here anymore, so we've decided to take a bit of a break, starting February 27, 2020. - Ember

 

Ember - Soulbonder, Female, 39 years old, from Georgia, USA . . . . [Our Progress Report] . . . . [How We Switch]

Vesper Dowrin - Insourced Soulbond from London, UK, World of Darkness, Female, born 9 Sep 1964, bonded ~12 May 2017

Iris Ravenlock - Insourced Soulbond from the Winter Court of Faerie, Dresdenverse, Female, born 6 Jun 1982, bonded ~5 Dec 2015

 

'Real isn't how you are made,' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you.' - The Velveteen Rabbit

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