Apollo Fire

Switching General Discussion

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Get ready for more comments from someone who doesn't switch... How is your fronting hygiene? It sounds like you guys just grab front whenever without any ceremony and I wonder if that contributes to the problem. See if you can make very clear boundaries each time you change fronters. Go through the same steps each time (even if you could take front instantly), respect the one in front until you both agree to go through the steps again and exchange control. It really really sounds like Gray doesn't respect the fronter and he needs to let you guys front in peace without grabbing back control. You might be training the brain that anything goes and Gray is always in charge and ready to take over.

 

Our ultimate goal is to still use possession for more fluid use of the front and use switching occasionally to give either me or Gray an advantage when fronting. We know our current fronting hygiene is bad, but part of it is we don't really care since it's possession. For us, that's kind of the point. We simply regard switching with a higher and more formal standard, and only want to practice good hygiene for switching. For example, if we both know I have class one day, it would be really useful if I could switch in so I can more easily focus on my class. After that, Cat may possess to do some math stuff or talk to her family, but I would still be switched in. The next day, Cat could switch in for her class and I would possess to get on the forums and stuff like I do now. Having my other headmates possess doesn't seem like a problem, but Cat wouldn't trust them to switch in.

 

 

Actually, I'm almost wondering if I have gone inactive in a switch once (or twice?), according to one switching definition at least. It was confusing and uncomfortable enough that we switched back however, and probably the reason we haven't tried much since. This is a model of switching with only one consciousness, described by Ponk's system. In a switch the conscious experience is uninterrupted and it's the tulpa's identity attached to the consciousness instead of the host. The host is not experiencing the body, but it's not like going to sleep or being dissociated, they're just not there. With the wrong mindset, it may feel like the host is still there because conscious experience continues, and hosts are used to believing that the conscious experience is a part of them. Or the consciousness believes it's the host? So in our case, Aya couldn't get me to respond, and started to believe the switch went wrong and I was fooling myself into believing I was Aya or something. We achieved that result by having Aya do some solo wonderland exploration and narration prior to the switch attempt, so I was already pretty unresponsive to start.

 

The only part of that definition that doesn't correlate with our possession experiences is "The host is not experiencing the body..." Given my laundry experience, Gray was experiencing the body, or else he wouldn't have given me so much trouble or threatened to take the front back.

 

Otherwise, Gray's "unconscious thoughts" seem to be sourced from the mental memory foam stuff I described in my last post and not Gray being active, so in that sense Joy/Ashley and Ponk are right that confusing that for Gray can lead to confusion. However, I wonder if dealing with the mental memory foam stuff is a general fronting experience and not specific to possession or switching.

 

My next questions are if Aya can do things with the body without having to worry about your interference and do you still react to the body when you are not active? If Aya gets final say and you don't react to changes in the body, then congratulations! If not, chances are Aya is possessing the body.

 


 

Given Vesper's feedback, it makes me wonder if the direct connection to the body's senses is normally a symptom of switching or her system has recorded a new type of switching or something.

 

I don't want the soul definition of switching to rely on control of the body. Otherwise, possession and switching are indistinguishable.


I'm Ranger, Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's tulpa, and I love hippos! I also like cake and chatting about stuff.

My other headmates have their own account now.

Temporary Log | Switching LogcBox | Yay!

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I meant more stuff a non-fronter dislikes that the fronter doesn't care about, like the body being hot or an activity like putting clothes away being boring. {Edit: Forgot to mention "Also it's not common for tulpas to so actively bug their hosts anyway"} While my system doesn't offer unwanted advice

 

Vesper: I tried to include a broad spectrum of switched out reactions to physical world circumstances. But I often get horribly bored over Ember's part of the life and I often complain about her choices. Fortunately, unlike an out-system critic, I can directly sense when I'm going too far and pull back.

 

(and really never demands)

 

Ember: There are a few times I was staying up so late that she physically hauled me to bed, since I can't offer effective resistance to her possession.

 

part of that is from us not being active 99% of the time

 

Vesper: 99% inactivity during body wakefulness only allows for about ten minutes of activity a day. Really?

 

Even the non-fronters "feel" the pain, would flinch or physically react to it?

 

If we're taken by surprise by sunlight or flame while I'm switched out, I'll still reflexively make the body flinch or whimper or some such. If we're taken by surprise by sunlight or flame while I'm switched in, my actual perception is identical, but the body reaction is much more extreme. (On the more pleasurable side of things, at smell of blood or the sight of a cute guy, I may accidentally open the physical lips to make the physical tongue slide across the physical teeth in spite of being switched out.)

 

We can tell ourselves that physical world matters are not our problem, that we're switched out and actually over there/here and not in the body. (Of course, the fronter can do that with equal success.) So if we aren't taken by surprise, I can brace myself and be focussed on my form being safe somewhere else. But it doesn't change that we're perceiving the same data in the same way, with the full intensity and clarity. The body and unconscious mind steadfastly ignore all attempts to dissociate.

 

But that's just because I was taught by the self-help stuff I read that "I" am not "the rest of me/the body", just the conscious part.

 

We're coming at the matter from very different directions. The body cannot be me, because I'm a short clumsy English goth vampire psychologist and the body isn't any of those.

 

Ember: There is an earlier origin for our recognition of The Lie, though. I'm trans. When puberty hit, I considered the body to have broken faith with me, declared it an enemy, and swore to defeat it. I acquired several years of experience in rejecting the legitimacy of the body as a teenager.

 

Vesper: The time when The Lie is most bald-faced, however, is during co-fronting, as the consciousness awareness broadcasts it's unremitting signal of oneness and wellness at two people at the same time, while they're talking to one another and sharing bodily control.


I'm not having fun here anymore, so we've decided to take a bit of a break, starting February 27, 2020. - Ember

 

Ember - Soulbonder, Female, 39 years old, from Georgia, USA . . . . [Our Progress Report] . . . . [How We Switch]

Vesper Dowrin - Insourced Soulbond from London, UK, World of Darkness, Female, born 9 Sep 1964, bonded ~12 May 2017

Iris Ravenlock - Insourced Soulbond from the Winter Court of Faerie, Dresdenverse, Female, born 6 Jun 1982, bonded ~5 Dec 2015

 

'Real isn't how you are made,' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you.' - The Velveteen Rabbit

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Vesper: 99% inactivity during body wakefulness only allows for about ten minutes of activity a day. Really?

 

:\

 

Ember: There is an earlier origin for our recognition of The Lie, though. I'm trans.

 

Fair enough, that'll definitely do it. My reason for having to separate "me" from the body and the rest of the mind was probably depression and motivation issues. Considering the latter was completely innate and unfixable, but I always strove to improve myself, at some point (with direct instruction from some self-help books that is) I had to detach my sense of self from what the body/mind said was me. It was very empowering, though it didn't magically fix everything, it puts you in a much better place to deal with yourself.

 

 

... anyways, unfortunately yes, 10 minutes sounds about right. On an average day, realistically speaking, 10 full minutes from waking to sleep means I've done my job, ie the absolute minimum, but it certainly hasn't been every day that I've done that. Though coincidentally, I currently plan to spend the whole day(s) with my tulpas as best I can because of Christmas. We've been slacking on the celebrating, but this is our favorite time of the year.


Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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I meant to update this thread, but I needed time.

I now can switch. Shortly after the last discussion, I created a method and switched intentionally for the first time. I have been practicing switching since.

Embracing the fact I was switching was hard. I had a lot of doubt when I was first learning whether or not I was switching. I had the conflicting feelings of "Oh! This is it! I know this is it!" and the dread "this can't possibly be it". After going back and forth and persevering though with my switching method, I slowly gained more confidence in our switching and feel less doubt about it now.

As of now I have switched about 10 times. To my surprise, I had a hard time with staying switched-in, or staying switched-in for so long I need a tulpa nap. It felt weird that I essentially had to re-learn how to control the body.


I believe the laundry post I made earlier is the most important post I made in this thread. A perfect example of what full body possession looks like at its best and why it's not switching. Now, when I switch, Gray doesn't give me trouble when I do laundry or participate in my class.

Right now my focus is continuing to strengthen my switch and continue practicing good switching hygiene.
 


 

It still bothers me that people hate this thread. This thread is the reality for me learning to switch. I didn't know what I was looking for, I chased after things I didn't understand, and it wasn't until things clicked I finally got the complete picture. I understand that most of it felt like aimless and unhelpful discussion, but a lot of it lead to leads that helped me better understand switching, and now that I can switch, guide research material.

I think a big, big, big part of why this journey was so difficult and confusing is stuff I'm going to talk about in more detail in another thread and I want to keep a secret for now. I think that thread will address one of the biggest issues of switching and how to help people be less confused when they learn switching.

 

Edited by Ranger

I'm Ranger, Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's tulpa, and I love hippos! I also like cake and chatting about stuff.

My other headmates have their own account now.

Temporary Log | Switching LogcBox | Yay!

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On 1/31/2020 at 2:13 PM, Ranger said:

I think a big, big, big part of why this journey was so difficult and confusing is stuff I'm going to talk about in more detail in another thread and I want to keep a secret for now. I think that thread will address one of the biggest issues of switching and how to help people be less confused when they learn switching.

 

Just chiming in to say that we're very interested in that thread, we're still trying to get our host to switch out, to no avail. We're curious to see what insights you might have regarding switching. Keep us posted.


Mixed-origins system. Co-hosts are Parda and Jay.

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