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Apollo Fire
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I'm not sure what you mean. Co-fronting is a useful part of our tool set and has never done us any harm that we can tell.

 

I meant it's messy but it doesn't bother us at all. (No harm)

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Get ready for more comments from someone who doesn't switch... How is your fronting hygiene? It sounds like you guys just grab front whenever without any ceremony and I wonder if that contributes to the problem. See if you can make very clear boundaries each time you change fronters. Go through the same steps each time (even if you could take front instantly), respect the one in front until you both agree to go through the steps again and exchange control. It really really sounds like Gray doesn't respect the fronter and he needs to let you guys front in peace without grabbing back control. You might be training the brain that anything goes and Gray is always in charge and ready to take over.

 

Our ultimate goal is to still use possession for more fluid use of the front and use switching occasionally to give either me or Gray an advantage when fronting. We know our current fronting hygiene is bad, but part of it is we don't really care since it's possession. For us, that's kind of the point. We simply regard switching with a higher and more formal standard, and only want to practice good hygiene for switching. For example, if we both know I have class one day, it would be really useful if I could switch in so I can more easily focus on my class. After that, Cat may possess to do some math stuff or talk to her family, but I would still be switched in. The next day, Cat could switch in for her class and I would possess to get on the forums and stuff like I do now. Having my other headmates possess doesn't seem like a problem, but Cat wouldn't trust them to switch in.

 

 

Actually, I'm almost wondering if I have gone inactive in a switch once (or twice?), according to one switching definition at least. It was confusing and uncomfortable enough that we switched back however, and probably the reason we haven't tried much since. This is a model of switching with only one consciousness, described by Ponk's system. In a switch the conscious experience is uninterrupted and it's the tulpa's identity attached to the consciousness instead of the host. The host is not experiencing the body, but it's not like going to sleep or being dissociated, they're just not there. With the wrong mindset, it may feel like the host is still there because conscious experience continues, and hosts are used to believing that the conscious experience is a part of them. Or the consciousness believes it's the host? So in our case, Aya couldn't get me to respond, and started to believe the switch went wrong and I was fooling myself into believing I was Aya or something. We achieved that result by having Aya do some solo wonderland exploration and narration prior to the switch attempt, so I was already pretty unresponsive to start.

 

The only part of that definition that doesn't correlate with our possession experiences is "The host is not experiencing the body..." Given my laundry experience, Gray was experiencing the body, or else he wouldn't have given me so much trouble or threatened to take the front back.

 

Otherwise, Gray's "unconscious thoughts" seem to be sourced from the mental memory foam stuff I described in my last post and not Gray being active, so in that sense Joy/Ashley and Ponk are right that confusing that for Gray can lead to confusion. However, I wonder if dealing with the mental memory foam stuff is a general fronting experience and not specific to possession or switching.

 

My next questions are if Aya can do things with the body without having to worry about your interference and do you still react to the body when you are not active? If Aya gets final say and you don't react to changes in the body, then congratulations! If not, chances are Aya is possessing the body.

 


 

Given Vesper's feedback, it makes me wonder if the direct connection to the body's senses is normally a symptom of switching or her system has recorded a new type of switching or something.

 

I don't want the soul definition of switching to rely on control of the body. Otherwise, possession and switching are indistinguishable.

I'm Ranger, Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's tulpa, and I love hippos! I also like cake and chatting about stuff. I'm undecided on Rosalind or Rosalin, and my male name is Ronan. You can call me Roz but please don't call me Ron.

My other headmates have their own account now.

Temporary Log | Switching LogcBox | Yay! | Bre Translator

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I meant more stuff a non-fronter dislikes that the fronter doesn't care about, like the body being hot or an activity like putting clothes away being boring. {Edit: Forgot to mention "Also it's not common for tulpas to so actively bug their hosts anyway"} While my system doesn't offer unwanted advice

 

Vesper: I tried to include a broad spectrum of switched out reactions to physical world circumstances. But I often get horribly bored over Ember's part of the life and I often complain about her choices. Fortunately, unlike an out-system critic, I can directly sense when I'm going too far and pull back.

 

(and really never demands)

 

Ember: There are a few times I was staying up so late that she physically hauled me to bed, since I can't offer effective resistance to her possession.

 

part of that is from us not being active 99% of the time

 

Vesper: 99% inactivity during body wakefulness only allows for about ten minutes of activity a day. Really?

 

Even the non-fronters "feel" the pain, would flinch or physically react to it?

 

If we're taken by surprise by sunlight or flame while I'm switched out, I'll still reflexively make the body flinch or whimper or some such. If we're taken by surprise by sunlight or flame while I'm switched in, my actual perception is identical, but the body reaction is much more extreme. (On the more pleasurable side of things, at smell of blood or the sight of a cute guy, I may accidentally open the physical lips to make the physical tongue slide across the physical teeth in spite of being switched out.)

 

We can tell ourselves that physical world matters are not our problem, that we're switched out and actually over there/here and not in the body. (Of course, the fronter can do that with equal success.) So if we aren't taken by surprise, I can brace myself and be focussed on my form being safe somewhere else. But it doesn't change that we're perceiving the same data in the same way, with the full intensity and clarity. The body and unconscious mind steadfastly ignore all attempts to dissociate.

 

But that's just because I was taught by the self-help stuff I read that "I" am not "the rest of me/the body", just the conscious part.

 

We're coming at the matter from very different directions. The body cannot be me, because I'm a short clumsy English goth vampire psychologist and the body isn't any of those.

 

Ember: There is an earlier origin for our recognition of The Lie, though. I'm trans. When puberty hit, I considered the body to have broken faith with me, declared it an enemy, and swore to defeat it. I acquired several years of experience in rejecting the legitimacy of the body as a teenager.

 

Vesper: The time when The Lie is most bald-faced, however, is during co-fronting, as the consciousness awareness broadcasts it's unremitting signal of oneness and wellness at two people at the same time, while they're talking to one another and sharing bodily control.

I'm not having fun here anymore, so we've decided to take a bit of a break, starting February 27, 2020. - Ember

 

Ember - Soulbonder, Female, 39 years old, from Georgia, USA . . . . [Our Progress Report] . . . . [How We Switch]

Vesper Dowrin - Insourced Soulbond from London, UK, World of Darkness, Female, born 9 Sep 1964, bonded ~12 May 2017

Iris Ravenlock - Insourced Soulbond from the Winter Court of Faerie, Dresdenverse, Female, born 6 Jun 1982, bonded ~5 Dec 2015

 

'Real isn't how you are made,' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you.' - The Velveteen Rabbit

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Vesper: 99% inactivity during body wakefulness only allows for about ten minutes of activity a day. Really?

 

:\

 

Ember: There is an earlier origin for our recognition of The Lie, though. I'm trans.

 

Fair enough, that'll definitely do it. My reason for having to separate "me" from the body and the rest of the mind was probably depression and motivation issues. Considering the latter was completely innate and unfixable, but I always strove to improve myself, at some point (with direct instruction from some self-help books that is) I had to detach my sense of self from what the body/mind said was me. It was very empowering, though it didn't magically fix everything, it puts you in a much better place to deal with yourself.

 

 

... anyways, unfortunately yes, 10 minutes sounds about right. On an average day, realistically speaking, 10 full minutes from waking to sleep means I've done my job, ie the absolute minimum, but it certainly hasn't been every day that I've done that. Though coincidentally, I currently plan to spend the whole day(s) with my tulpas as best I can because of Christmas. We've been slacking on the celebrating, but this is our favorite time of the year.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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  • 1 month later...

I meant to update this thread, but I needed time.

I now can switch. Shortly after the last discussion, I created a method and switched intentionally for the first time. I have been practicing switching since.

Embracing the fact I was switching was hard. I had a lot of doubt when I was first learning whether or not I was switching. I had the conflicting feelings of "Oh! This is it! I know this is it!" and the dread "this can't possibly be it". After going back and forth and persevering though with my switching method, I slowly gained more confidence in our switching and feel less doubt about it now.

As of now I have switched about 10 times. To my surprise, I had a hard time with staying switched-in, or staying switched-in for so long I need a tulpa nap. It felt weird that I essentially had to re-learn how to control the body.


I believe the laundry post I made earlier is the most important post I made in this thread. A perfect example of what full body possession looks like at its best and why it's not switching. Now, when I switch, Gray doesn't give me trouble when I do laundry or participate in my class.

Right now my focus is continuing to strengthen my switch and continue practicing good switching hygiene.
 


 

It still bothers me that people hate this thread. This thread is the reality for me learning to switch. I didn't know what I was looking for, I chased after things I didn't understand, and it wasn't until things clicked I finally got the complete picture. I understand that most of it felt like aimless and unhelpful discussion, but a lot of it lead to leads that helped me better understand switching, and now that I can switch, guide research material.

I think a big, big, big part of why this journey was so difficult and confusing is stuff I'm going to talk about in more detail in another thread and I want to keep a secret for now. I think that thread will address one of the biggest issues of switching and how to help people be less confused when they learn switching.

 

Edited by Ranger

I'm Ranger, Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's tulpa, and I love hippos! I also like cake and chatting about stuff. I'm undecided on Rosalind or Rosalin, and my male name is Ronan. You can call me Roz but please don't call me Ron.

My other headmates have their own account now.

Temporary Log | Switching LogcBox | Yay! | Bre Translator

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On 1/31/2020 at 2:13 PM, Ranger said:

I think a big, big, big part of why this journey was so difficult and confusing is stuff I'm going to talk about in more detail in another thread and I want to keep a secret for now. I think that thread will address one of the biggest issues of switching and how to help people be less confused when they learn switching.

 

Just chiming in to say that we're very interested in that thread, we're still trying to get our host to switch out, to no avail. We're curious to see what insights you might have regarding switching. Keep us posted.

Mixed-origins system. Co-hosts are Parda and Jay.

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  • 3 months later...
  • 11 months later...
(edited)

I happened to be scrolling in this thread, and then I found some stuff I wanted to elaborate on. I won't go through the entire thread today, but there were a few things that stuck out at me. I'm doing this for the sake of anyone who bothered to read through this thread, not for the OP.

 

On 5/16/2019 at 2:28 PM, Bear said:

It is kind of an "ah ha!" moment, i think you're going to have to unlearn that fronting that you've been doing a little (to Felights)

 

I have a working theory that some systems lose the ability to full-body possess when they learn switching. I believe this happens for the following scenario:

Initially, how close someone is to the front is mapped to one's ability to possess. By moving towards the front, a hedamate achieves a possession state. This allows for instant possession and changing who possesses in a matter of seconds. I'm not familiar with any systems who didn't map possession to front proximity, and for this model I'm assuming a system's ability to possess is based on fronting proximity.

 

When they go to learn switching, they find several methods that teach fronting proximity is a way to switch. After learning about these methods, the possession system trains to switch like they possessed. This system learns everything they need to learn about switching, so they pick up switching almost naturally. They quickly accustomed to their new switching experience and don't worry about possession due to its lack of necessity.

If you asked this system to possess, they may be unable to do it. They may show you partial possession, but if you asked them to full-body possess, they would tell you that doesn't make any sense or it's just switching. In this hypothetical, that's contradictory because in the past they full-body possessed, they didn't switch from the start.

 

As this hypothetical illustrates, I believe the trigger for full-body possession- proximity to the front- can be replaced with switching. I had this fear I could lose possession in this way before I figured out switching, and as a result I created the concept of a possession and a switching front. So far, I have achieved this successfully, and I believe it is considered an unusual experience.

Ultimately, I believe forgetting how to possess is a way to learn switching, but not in a way you might expect. I believe forgetting possession happens naturally, you don't need to somehow forget possession and then learn to switch. If a possessing system is struggling to switch, I believe there are other things they need to do before they can achieve switching, and once that is achieved they will forget full-body possession if they tie their switching to fronting proximity and/or don't invest in trying to preserve their ability to full-body possess.

 

On 5/16/2019 at 12:35 AM, Apollo Fire said:

One thing we wonder sometimes is if learning to switch will affect our memories/how we perceive our memories. As of right now, Radio is always present, so it's kind of like he's keeping our memories linear to each other. We still know which memories belonged to which system member, but there's not a whole lot of feeling of disconnect. We wonder if perhaps having Radio actually switch out will make them feel less liner, more personalized to the individual members, something like that. Can't know for certain until we actually learn to switch, of course.

 

I find that when switched-in, my memories get tangled up with Cat's memories all the time. I find my memories to be easier to recall if I have more context and know its something I did (I can remember writing or ideas I had switched-in).

Actually... being swithched-in or not is not very helpful for helping me remember something. If anything, it's easier to remember stuff I did in the back or if I have more context than "(I?) did X thing at work".

 

On 5/16/2019 at 2:37 AM, Flandre said:

Learning to switch with someone who doesn't think like the host really shows you exactly what is the host and what is the mind. It also shows you what's really you, too, but that's probably more obvious.

 

I had a really hard time with figuring out what was me and what was Cat, even after I started learning to switch. Part of the reason I had so much trouble recently is I was sabotaging my autopilot afraid it wasn't really me that much, and it was like fighting over the drivers wheel with... the driver's wheel. Cat was switched-out and I was the default, she wasn't going to steal the front or take it away from me.

That's not to say there's a deeper truth to this though- I still ended up learning more about what is and isn't Cat, and learning to relax and let my autopilot do its job made things easier not harder.
 

On 5/16/2019 at 5:09 PM, Apollo Fire said:

Here's something that hasn't been entirely clear on our switching research so far: what might stop someone from switching, despite trying? I know the typical answers: belief, mindset, possible fear, not knowing how to dissociate, things like that. Besides that stuff, why might someone be unable to fully disconnect from the consciousness and switch out? My idea is perhaps some people just have way more active minds and have a harder time zoning out, and that translates to switching, of course that's just a mini-theory and I am in no way saying that applies to everyone. What do you guys think?

 

Trust violations.

Trust is a weird thing, especially if you start of with a really strong the host and tulpa are equal perspective. Ironically, that mindset may be contributing to neglecting any possible fears and trust violations the host may be having. I don't know if this is why the Felights can't switch or not, but it could apply to a different system with this point of view. For me at least, I actually lost the ability to switch by violating Cat's trust.

 

The trust violation was subtle, it wasn't obvious what happened until we did some digging. All I knew is when I tried to switch in, Gray would break down and refuse to switch with me. After investigating and working with Gray, I figured out seriously considering yelling at Gray's parents was what violated Gray's trust. After working out that I can't do that, our switching front unlocked and I could switch again.

 

Another reason could be unusual circumstances- there are weird experiences out there like how I managed to fight the switching front itself and exhaust myself that are probably out there but I don't know much about. I feel like there is still a lot to learn here, but I don't know if these experiences could somehow prevent switching. I came across one situation I thought was an unusual circumstance, but I think it boiled down to a trust violation and the unusual experience was a by-product of that. However, I don't know if my analysis of that situation was accurate, so I won't mention the context here.

The other thing would be the switching front is locked because the problem causing it is something only a medical professional can address. It could be a really complicated trust violation, but it could also be maybe a mental health condition is creating too much anxiety or maybe there's an underlying problem with depression that needs to be addressed first. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion "because I have a different brain therefore I can't switch", mostly because even if it were true, any chance of figuring out switching will be discarded or rejected by that mindset.

 

On 5/17/2019 at 2:50 AM, Indigo Blue said:

Side-note: fear should only be considered as an explanation if it is clear and obvious, not somehow hidden from the host/tulpa(s).

 

False. Fear or a trust violation can be subtle or not obvious at all. Part of the frustration we had with our trust violation is we didn't know exactly what the problem was, and we were stressed out because we were not expecting to suddenly be unable to switch.

 

On 5/17/2019 at 2:50 AM, Indigo Blue said:

Mental activity: One theory that we have thought over is the idea that some people, for whatever reason, just have more active minds and have a much harder time turning them off/zoning out, and that translates into an inability to let go for a switch. In the past, it has been proposed to me that our born-female host had a harder time switching out because women just have more active minds, while men are able to turn theirs off easier. It’s an idea, however I’m not going to diagnose it as being a gender-problem, rather it could just be a personality thing. I can definitely agree that neither us nor our host have ever had much of an idle mind, there’s always something going on, never any zoning out. I do not know if this is really something uncommon. It is worth considering at the very least.

 

I have no idea how relevant this is to actually switching. It could be that people with ADHD or women have a biological disadvantage, but I don't know how true this is. I think it would be really interesting to investigate this further, but that didn't stop us from switching (we have a female body and ADHD).

The dissociation you get from meditating is absolutely enough, and even then it's not really required either. If you hit a point where you can tone out your surroundings, that's plenty for switching. Gray and I have successfully switched while we were distracted by our surroundings. Even for a first switch, you don't need unhealthy dissociation (depersonalization/derealization) or even to be immersed in your mind void to switch out.

Edited by Ranger

I'm Ranger, Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's tulpa, and I love hippos! I also like cake and chatting about stuff. I'm undecided on Rosalind or Rosalin, and my male name is Ronan. You can call me Roz but please don't call me Ron.

My other headmates have their own account now.

Temporary Log | Switching LogcBox | Yay! | Bre Translator

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  • 7 months later...
(edited)

I was holding back in this thread asking about what switching is for a few reasons:

 

1) I'm still trying to divorce myself from a mindset about switching I think is toxic

2) I stuck to giving a general overview because I don't think I need to or should teach them how to switch right now

3) I want to be lazy and just talk about switching just to talk about switching, I don't feel like doing that in this thread

 

On the first point- I explained how I felt on #RedditTulpas while I was talking about my beliefs in general. This is the mindset I had I want to distance myself from:
 

Quote

Letting go the idea young tulpas shouldn't front is hard too. I have talked about it before with others, and I think that idea is harmful too. A lot of systems have tulpas that learn switching month 2 and for some week 2, and they don't have any problems whatsoever. If the system seems stressed about it then early switching is not good, but I think my anxiety about a young tulpa fronting could be toxic for others

 

Which leads to my second point- I don't really want to teach a beginner how to switch right out of the gate. The reason is partly because I'm still motivated by the previous mindset I pointed out, but the other reason is it may not matter anyway. A lot of people seem to switch really early on just by figuring it out themselves, they just need the basic idea on what switching is all about.

 

I do have some concerns about them switching, but I want to hold back from sharing them right now. I think explaining my fears could lead to a toxic self-fulfilling prophecy for the OP and so far, my fears have been completely wrong about the general case scenario. I cannot think of a single case where my fears applied to anyone's situation, and the people who do have fears similar to mine seem to not be at risk of what I'm afraid of.

 


 

With that out of the way...

 

On 1/2/2022 at 3:47 PM, TurboSimmie said:

Switching is basically where the tulpa becomes the "dominant thinker" or "fronts", while the host moves to the background to take up the space the tulpa is normally in.

 

I agree with everything except the dominant thinker part. When I'm switched-in, I don't have to be the dominant thinker, I'm just the default personality of the body.

 

On 12/22/2021 at 1:28 AM, TurboSimmie said:

his mind to calm down as he enters a kind of "vibing state". Meanwhile, I am stimulated by the exercise and the nature around me. It's a combination of the brain itself being more active while Phil himself is less active that gives me the opening I need to easily slip into the pilot's seat.

 

And then...Simmie takes over. 😁 I start speaking simple affirmative phrases like "I am Simmie" or "Simmie is in charge now", first in mindvoice, then in mindvoice and out loud, then finally just out loud. Phil is a very verbally-oriented person--he thinks almost exclusively in language--so taking over his voice is how I take over the position as the primary thinker. And so it is that Simmie has switched in!

 

I honestly get kind of surprised when I see our switching ritual pop up in other people's rituals. It's not exactly the same steps, but you do most of what we do here.

 

The "vibe state" is probably some kind of meditative, daydream, or hypnotic state- all of which are a weak form of dissociation. While a dissociation step is typically helpful for switching, it's not required. Going to wonderland and immersing yourself in the wonderland can lead to this state too- maybe Phil can recreate the hiking trip as a pocket wonderland to trigger the dissociation step.

 

When we switch, we check-in with each other and then we do our consent ritual. I wonder if it's the same concept- by being active, I am preparing myself for the next phase. I don't know if associating with your wonderland would help or not, but thinking about nature or your presence could.

 

After our consent ritual, Gray usually "walks into the distance" which is another dissociation thing. This effectively leaves me alone in the switching front.

 

After that, I start with our affirmation step- "My name is Ranger, I'm one with the body, I'm the host", etc. I don't know if the order really matters so much, I would stick with what makes more sense to you. During the affirmation phase I also focus on my form filling up the body before I start to move and associate. With your method, I think you blend affirmation and association together- for me, they're separate phases but they tend to overlap a lot in practice.

 

On 12/22/2021 at 1:28 AM, TurboSimmie said:

t's not perfect of course. Phil will automatically try to retake the front, usually with a series of derailing thoughts, but during these heightened states I'm able to reign him in. And of course it only lasts for so long. The longest I have achieved so far is a little less than an hour. I have made it all the way back to the car, but when Phil starts driving his mind takes back over. Also, whenever we encounter people on the trail Phil jumps back to the front to say "hello" to them. And of course there is the problem that this very specific set of circumstances cannot be created at will at any moment. However, I have also found success in switching during other "gray activities", that is, activities that rely heavily on the body's automatic processes and require very little input from Phil or I.

 

I don't know if Phil lunging for the front is a good idea, when you get used to switching it will take time before you can remain switched-in for longer and longer stretches of time (and then, it won't matter if Phil lunges or not). Since you're still learning switching, you may need to do switching corrections- just do another affirmation statement: "I am Simmie", "Simmie is in charge now", etc. and that will correct your switch.

 

I recommend doing your switching ritual with Phil when you feel tired so you can formally switch out and preserve the association your ritual = switching. If you don't keep up with that, you may end up associating fronting movement (such as Phil moving closer to the front, you moving towards the back, etc.) with switching. While this can lead to faster switching, this typically leads to accidental switching or problems with blending. For some this doesn't cause issues, but for others this can make headmates feel blendy and cause other problems.

 

On 12/22/2021 at 1:28 AM, TurboSimmie said:

but that might be literally years off for all I know.

 

After about a couple weeks of practice if that, it will be cake. I actually took longer to get comfortable with the front and our body's autopilot, but I tend to fall behind on most if not all of my tulpamancy milestones.

 

On 12/22/2021 at 1:28 AM, TurboSimmie said:

I have had plenty of troubles in the past understanding what exactly "possession" and "switching" were and how they were different. But I believe I have resolved my confusion.

 

I am going to take a shot in the dark with this one, but I think I know where the confusion lies- fronting movement symbolism.

 

Fronting movement symbolism is the feeling of being close to or far away from controlling the body. Typically this feeling is visualized in a 3d space and switching rituals usually have some kind of 3d element where the headmates physically move around- the tulpa moves infront of their host (which is where fronting comes from), maybe moving to the "side of your brain" means you're switched-in, maybe you move "inside" the body, or maybe you move into a cockpit, control room, etc. The main thing all of these rituals have in common is this 3d space that's symbolizing the switching front. When a system takes short cuts to speed things up, usually the visual element is less important and the abstract concept is kept- all that remains is the feeling of being close to or far away from the front. Ultimately, the concept is still the same, even if it's just "pushing" your host out of the front or "grabbing" control. This idea of moving around in "the front" is intuitive and what most people do for possession and switching.

 

When systems first learn possession, most of the time people don't pick up a fancy ritual and instead associate possession with fronting movement. If you used Yuki's possession guide or something similar maybe presence symbolism or symbolism to represent your form filling up the body, but for the most part... if you "feel close to the front", then you're going to control the body. Possession is usually quick and easy, to the point where tulpas learn to do it quickly. Possession would suck a lot more if you didn't do this- if you tried to make use out of possession, your host will probably kick you out by accident a lot. It's way easier to get "close to the front" instead of sit down and do some complicated ritual every single time. All of that effort would be pointless if you could get kicked out in 5 minutes, even if you're good enough at possession to talk to other people or take a class. For some, the struggle reaches a breaking point and something interesting changes.

 

I suspect when a tulpa gets good enough at possession, sometimes they end up switching in and pushing their host out of the switching front. However, when this happens, switching overrides possession and the familiar fronting movement feelings now map to the switching front, not the possession front. As a result, doing the same thing now leads to switching instead of possession. I have seen system who used to possess suddenly realize they could switch and then they would tell me "full-body possession is the same as switching!" Are you sure? You can do a lot more now than you could in the past. Since partial possession may involve a different ritual and usually isn't mapped to the feeling of being close to the font, partial possession remains but full-body possession becomes replaced with switching.

 

Since we have a large system and we don't have trust established for everyone, we didn't want to lose possession when we learned switching- so we came up with the concept of a double front. When I control the body, I spend most of my time possessing the body, not switching. When I want to switch, we do our switching ritual and in doing so, expose our switching front. When our ritual concludes, we close the switching front. This is really convenient because we can be really sloppy with our possession without risking playing hot potato with our switching. It also allows for our headmates to control the body whenever they want to but whoever is switched-in can step in and take control if necessary.

 

On 1/2/2022 at 10:56 PM, Murk said:

Because we have such different relations to each other, we have to have different ways of switching with each other.

 

You're the first system I'm aware of who claimed they switch differently based on who is switching with who.

 

On 1/2/2022 at 10:56 PM, Murk said:

Eli and I most often switch by having him disconnect from our body. Some people do this a sense at a time, but we have found that having a sense of displacing himself mentally away from the front space between the eyes is strong symbolism that helps to get the job done quickly. It isn't instant, but we almost always hear each other coming from just above our right ear, so we know that the job is mostly complete when that happens. When I switch in, I have to focus on my face and dominant arm / hand first (my left, as Eli is right-handed). I move that first and focus on breathing as myself, sometimes with Luna counting "in" and "out" for me. I focus on my thoughts coming through that front space between the eyes and usually affirm that "I am Murk", and something about what I intend to do while switched. When I switch in to play Smash Brothers, we can actually feel the differences in how I hold the controller as my muscle memory habits take over. And, just for me, I have found lifting weights helps me to stay in longer by helping to make unconscious muscle movements, mine.

 

I don't know if I pay attention to my muscle memory habits when I switch in. I have a couple quirks I do when I switch in, but I don't think there are many of them and most are likely not too pronounced.

 

I fixate on is if my eyelids are cold after opening my eyes, that gives me a confidence boost we exited a trance.

 

Our Sub. Rep. is sometimes a middle man who is allowed to hang out with us in the switching front, but he doesn't normally help us switch. I think there were a couple times he would be there... I remember talking to him when I drank too much coffee that one day when I was still taking... wait was that Gray? That was his pre-calc stats class? Damn, our fronting memories are foobed, we can't tell who did what anymore

 

On 1/2/2022 at 10:56 PM, Murk said:

Eli and Luna can trade places almost effortlessly. She can take over in a crisis situation or move a body part without permission, and she can hold front for a very long time. She works by making passive influence active by imagining her form that symbolizes all that is Luna as existing over our body, and Eli can feel her coming in from the left as a strong other presence when she wants to take control. But she and Eli are a lot closer to a median system than a tulpa and their host, and she is pretty unique in how she works.

 

That sounds familiar...

 

Our Sub. Rep. never switched-in before, originally he was hesitant to possess at all, and even now he doesn't want to be too close to the front. Our Sub. Rep. has some interesting symbolism, but I don't think any of it is particularly relevant to the switching front. The exception is when we visualized the switching front in a different way, and that revealed me in a weird circle thingy with straps I was tangled up in. This was showing I was fighting the front itself and he was basically trying to explain to me I needed to "stop punching the steering wheel" and let the autopilot do its thing. I have no idea how long our Sub. Rep. could be switched-in for if he were to. Our Sub. Rep. never jumped for the switching front, but if there was a weird emergency, it is a loop hole he could take advantage of I guess.

 

On 1/2/2022 at 10:56 PM, Murk said:

Luna and I aren't connected in the same way. Although I was made by both of them, Luna and I have to work a lot harder to switch. We have to start with me fronting, then she imposes her form behind mine close enough to touch. We actually have to visualize physical contact to get this to work, and we have not been able to make anything happen without visual symbolism. She places her hands on mine and we can together move our limbs. After we get in sync like this, if I go mentally limp, she is the only one left in control at front.

 

Interesting...

 

Gray and I switch just by doing our switching ritual, it doesn't matter who does what. At the time of writing this only I and Gray have switched-in, my other headmates have not. I would be more than surprised if my headmates struggled with using the switching method we already established.

 

5 hours ago, Adagio said:

We've been switching for years now, and I have no clue how we do it.

 

It's not weird for systems that can switch to have no idea how they did it. I found this pretty frustrating when I was struggling to switch, but at the end of the day there were several things going against us- trust issues, mental health stuff, unhelpful mindsets we picked up, etc. At the end of the day though, I was able to figure it out after talking to enough systems and us sorting stuff out. You know more than you think you do.

Edited by Ranger

I'm Ranger, Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's tulpa, and I love hippos! I also like cake and chatting about stuff. I'm undecided on Rosalind or Rosalin, and my male name is Ronan. You can call me Roz but please don't call me Ron.

My other headmates have their own account now.

Temporary Log | Switching LogcBox | Yay! | Bre Translator

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(edited)

I think people should try figuring out how to switch on their own with no instruction other than the end goal and being told it's possible, and if they really can't figure it out then they could try someone's guide or something

 

I also strongly believe only strong, well-developed tulpas should attempt switching, to prevent a whole bunch of possible problems related to doubt, trouble with identity/association et cetera


A tulpa could be strong and separate a few weeks in, or after a year, doesn't matter too much (though I wouldn't recommend switching as a skill to any tulpa system less than ~6 months old personally). All that matters is they (and the brain) really know who they are and what the borders between them and their host are. As long as the host and tulpa are sure of themselves, I think they should be able to figure out switching pretty well on their own. We did, but my tulpas were over 4 years old by the time we found the forum and heard about switching

Edited by Luminesce

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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