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Odd state: random, disorganized thoughts


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[align=justify]When waking up or going to sleep, we very often enter a state where our thoughts are random, disorganized, sometimes nonsensical, and often difficult to remember. I don't know if this is common but I'm assuming it is.

 

Something we've noticed lately is that when we are trying to switch, sometimes our mind will enter that state. It's like our brain is trying to go to sleep, just without any tiredness. Does anyone else experience this? We've been playing around with it as a potential means for host dissociation. Might be useful, might not.[/align]

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The state of hazy thoughts and all that is called "Hypnagogia" upon falling asleep or "Hypnopompia" upon waking up, and is part of a normal's human sleep cycle yes, although some people wake up/fall asleep more quickly than others or are less conscious for it. Those times can be really good for visualization practice!

 

As for switching.. for the reverse maybe, we found in the past that the pre-waking-up period could be used to switch if we somehow decided to, but I don't know what to say about it happening when trying to switch. Seems like a not so related phenomenon, but I guess in the end it's mostly brainwave stuff, so if you wanted to do a lot of in-depth research to not get much of an answer, you could look into alpha/beta/delta/gamma/theta waves maybe?

 

We don't experience that ourselves, we only use a very quick-and-simple meditative state (really just focusing on our breath for 20 seconds or so, maybe more if we're really unfocused) to switch. But y'know, I bet some 2012 tulpamancers who could switch might've tried like, super deep hour long meditations to do it, so I wouldn't count that concept out because of our experience.

Hi guys, plain text is just me now! We've each got our own accounts: me, Tewi, Flandre, and Lucilyn. We're Luminesce's tulpas.

Here's our "Ask Thread", and here's our Progress Report (You should be able to see all of our accounts on the second page if you want)

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For decades, I only noticed the confused "thought shredding" aspects of hypagogia, but Bear system has written many times about spontaneous imposition during hypnagogia and there are multiple approved guides, such as this one, for making use of it in visualization practice. For the past several months, I've been picking up on flashes of random nonsensical imagery during hypnagogia, though nothing imposed.

 

During hypnopompia, we are still wrapped up in "dream logic" and sometimes dream stories even continue to play in the mind's eye, without immersion. Hold on the front is nebulous and loose. Whoever was switched in for bed and whoever's perspective the dream was from don't have heavy impact on who wakes up switched in. But Vesper and Iris both hate the disorientation of hypnapompia, so they immediately bail out if they wake up switched in.

 

We have never experienced anything like hypnagogia while switching. But switching only took us a few seconds preparation at first and takes no discernable time at all now. It's always been very much like a light switch flipping; it isn't gradual and there isn't an experience within the switching itself.

 

-Ember

I'm not having fun here anymore, so we've decided to take a bit of a break, starting February 27, 2020. - Ember

 

Ember - Soulbonder, Female, 39 years old, from Georgia, USA . . . . [Our Progress Report] . . . . [How We Switch]

Vesper Dowrin - Insourced Soulbond from London, UK, World of Darkness, Female, born 9 Sep 1964, bonded ~12 May 2017

Iris Ravenlock - Insourced Soulbond from the Winter Court of Faerie, Dresdenverse, Female, born 6 Jun 1982, bonded ~5 Dec 2015

 

'Real isn't how you are made,' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you.' - The Velveteen Rabbit

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For some reason, that is a really hard state for me to achieve before going to sleep, and that annoys me. That state of mind where Cat is lost in nonsensical thought is sometimes the last thing Cat remembers before going to sleep. This also happens sometimes if Cat wakes up and is half-asleep. For me, I find that it's really hard for me to be in this state, and usually the brain will kick me out and default back to Cat before dozing off.

 

Cat has achieved that state while meditating before, so that may be the reason why you are experiencing it during switching attempts. Normally though, we have the opposite case: we have the tiredness and not the nonsensical thinking.

 

I would play around with it. If you find that one of you are responsible for talking out loud in mindvoice in this state, maybe you will also become the one dreaming too. Can't say from personal experience though.

I'm Ranger, Gray's/Cat_ShadowGriffin's tulpa, and I love hippos! I also like cake and chatting about stuff.

My other headmates have their own account now.

Temporary Log | Switching LogcBox | Yay! | Bre Translator

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Random nonsensical thoughts, is how I usually experience the hypnagogic state. I also get random mental images, and on the rare occasion, a very vivid image will flash. I rarely experience an actual hallucination. Hypnopompia for me is a little different, more like random mini dreams, much more image based.

 

What kind of switching method are you using when this happens? If it involves sitting or laying still with your eyes closed for a while, I'm not surprised if it causes hypnagogia.

Host: YukariTelepath

Tulpa: Aya

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[Jay] this actually sounds very similar to what happens to us when we try to switch either of us out. The method involved is similar too, although it is a bit different.

 

When we try to switch, we passively let our mind wander instead of either focusing on clearing our head of all thoughts, or focusing on switching alone. Just let the thoughts happen, dont pay too much attention to them, just let them happen. At a certain point we do enter a state like you described, and if we successfully dont pay attention to being in that state (again, just let it happen), we sometimes experience the start of a switch. We’ve never come past that though, considering at that stage we get shocked out of it.

 

I should mention that while letting our mind wander we often dissociate at least a little. Like being unable to hear all of the sudden. And right before the switch-out we arent really aware of anything at all. It’s very similar to falling asleep, if that makes sense?

 

[Parda] plus there’s the fact that we found out we’re mixed-origins, we naturally tend to dissociate thanks to trauma stuff. Maybe this won’t 100% apply to you, but we still figured our experiences might be helpful?

Mixed-origins system. Co-hosts are Parda and Jay.

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    • By testing
      Reformatted version: here
       
      This is the shortened version of the guide that only shows how to do possession and switching, the other guide has information on how to merge, and additional information such as more details on the process and a questions section. If you want to read that guide it is here. This shortened guide also has a pastebin if that is more convenient for you here <3
      This guide is simply a shortened version of the guide that is shortened to 5 of the 13 sections taken directly.
      A personal note, i have been switching for a while now and have used many different techniques, the one below is the one that i have found both effective and easy to explain compared to what the other things are. This is Version 1.0, and will be edited if need be. Im posting it because i have had a few people get good results with it.
      Disclaimer
      This guide requires a rather well developed tulpa, as it does put some strain on the host and tulpa. They should be sentient vocal and have had sufficient time to be comfortable in their own bodies before they use anyones besides theirs. Additionally do not attempt movements that put you or your tulpa at risk such as walking fast around your house at least until you are confident and trained that you can control the whole body. It is advised to train on your bed as well so if you fall you wont be injured as much
      There is no set time that this guide and process will take, i have sped it up but it can be your first try (such as me) or it could take weeks who knows
       
      Introduction:
      I will first assume that you are aware of what switching is but in case you dont, it is when the tulpa can use the hosts body as if it were her own and the host is moved into a temporary mindform. This guide is made to allow for the host and tulpaes to switch much easier and smoother and also learn an easy method of possession following the same tecniques. If you are not at all willing to give your body to your tulpa temporarily, or permanantly as Koomer has done, then sadly this guide will not work for you. We do recommend reading Oguigis possession and the other switching guide as well, to increase your understanding of the processes involved with said methods. That being said the rest of the guide will be the real method
       
      The Shortened Tulpa Guide to Easy Switching
       
       
      Definitions:
      Mindvoice: What you and your tulpa speak in to yourselves and each other
      Possession: When a tulpa can control the hosts body
      Switching: Switching places with the tulpa so the tulpa is in the place of the host and the host is in a tulpa state
      Merging: In this version, it is when both tulpa and host as dominant with the mindvoices and can both control the body. Others refer to merging as merging wntire forms, usually permanently, as believed. This is not the merging described in the long version of the guide
       
      Begin Switching
      Get comfy, and have your tulpa nearby, sentience and vocality are required to do a switch with this method, so have your tulpa at that level first.
       
      Step 1 Switch whos thoughts are dominant
      This is very important and very useful to many many techniques of tulpa
      Take a deep breath first and relax or whatever you like so you are comfortable
      Normally people tell me that their voice is dominant, their voice is in the "front of their head," and their tulpas voice is in the "back of their head" or that they hear mostly their voice and some thoughts of their tulpa. The goal of this paragraph and step is to reverse that. Have your tulpas voice become dominant over yours in any way you like. If you can do that without any help then move on if you dont keep reading
       
      >You can imagine your tulpas voice moving to the front of your head and yours move to the back
      >You can make their voice louder and yours much more quiet
      >You can imagine 2 orbs with 2 different colors, one smaller sized orb representing your tulpas mindvoices and one larger orb representing your own mindvoice(s), and have your tulpaes orb grow in volume while yours decreases in volume, or however you want
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      Please note the following
      >If your tulpa is dominant, it will be harder for you to think, so the tulpa will have to do more work for the next few steps and it is advised to read the guide at least once before trying it so you know what youre doing
      >Switching mindvoices does not mean you use her voice and the tulpa uses your real voice, it is switching places so that the tulpas is dominant, and is mentioned twice because it is important in this guide
      >To confirm that you are doing it right, if you were asked a question about yourself, your tulpa should reply first before you reply, it just does that by itself, if you have that then you switched dominance and are doing it correctly. You also may try to do this to switch mindvoices, by having their reaction override your own speed.
      >At this point i have been told the tulpas voice is much clearer than before so that is something to look for as well and a method of training vocality if you wish
       
      Step 2 Possession
      On the side if you havnt, check out Oguigi's guide for a nice introduction and description of possession and what it does
      At this step you should be able to do a possession easier, either with this or Oguigi's method. You can use the mindvoice swap with her guide for likely better results in posessing.
       
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      Step 3 Tulpa coming in your bodie
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      Step 4 Give your body to your tulpa
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      H: From the tulpaes point of view, it should be like the hostmasters normal point of view, meaning they should use the body just as if it were their own, as well as have full access to all 5 senses provided by the body. They should also hear the host as he would hear a normal tulpa. Also i repeat that not all thoughts are to translated into english and you should hear thoughts just as your hostmaster does. I mean that you should also hear thought ramblings and subconscious thoughts.
       
      Some people have said that their mindform is unstable at first when you switch, pull your mindform out just as normal and have in in a low movement setting, and have it sit quietly and watch, then after you can switch, work on making your mindform more stable, just like developing a tulpas body. It is the exact same process regarding the body forming and form. Also as a tulpa your senses may be blurrier and harder to distinguish what is felt with your senses. That is normal, it is not always fixed, because that is how a tulpa body works, it is a little less vivid from what we have found with our personal experience with it, but you can try to work on it and make it clearer by focusing on it or other methods in order to accomplish this task here.
       
      Step 5 Undoing possession, switching, and merging, the most important step
      Step 6 in the first guide is this step if you look at the numbers, step 5 in the first guide is merging but it is cut out in the guide so the numbers are as they are. Why is it the most important step? If you dont do this step your tulpa may feel tired, sometimes, even a little out of it. Dont worry if this happens, from what ive heard its somewhat normal but its a thing easily fixable. it is likely not overly harmful as it will usually return to normal soon. If you dont switch for very long times such as days or weeks and if you know what you are doing then it should also not be a problem. If you are newer to switching, and afterward your tulpa feels fatigued, again dont worry, its easy to fix. Imagine them exiting your body and back into theirs, its that simple but if your tulpa ever gets tired after switching or whatnot this is the solution. This should be done at the end of most or almost all switching sessions, moreso if you are beginning to learn to switch, to keep things simple on switching.
       
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      Both I and someone else using my methods have had our tulpaes get the tired feels at least once, and when we unswitched it returned to normal without much difficulty from either the host nor the tulpa
      Notes:
      This guide is still under work, if you find any errors, have any questions or comments, do post them below.
    • Guest
      By Guest
      I have questions/concerns about switching, first off when you're switched does the wonder land seem as real as reality, if not what are the differences, also is what you can do in wonderland limited by reality or can you fly around and shoot lasers out of your ears. Also when your switched do you need your tulpas help to switch back or can you do it on your own and finally if your tulpa learns something in real life will you know it automatically.
    • By Jamie
      Quite often, after C fronts, we don't formally switch back. Either something makes me jump back into the body (he can't use my voice, so I have to grab control for long conversations out loud), or it happens slowly. C will be getting tired and having a weaker control on the body, until suddenly I move, not C- and I realize I'm fronting now. 
       
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      -J
    • By Cat_ShadowGriffin
      Ranger and I were talking to people on Discord and anon brought up the concept of an internal narrator. I'm struggling to understand what he's talking about, mostly because we never considered anything like that as being part of how we work to begin with. I then realized if both of us have very different ideas for what "you" is made up of, then that explains some of the confusion about switching.
       
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      When looking at our system and our possession dynamic, we noticed three general parts of me:
       
      -The guy standing in wonderland speaking in mindvoice (aka my Gray form)
      -The entity controlling the body
      -A primitive chunk of me that emits raw thought and observes reality
       
      I know these parts are separate for the following reasons:
       
      1) I can stand in wonderland and be reacting to what's happening with the body at the same time, so the first two parts are separate. Even though I am more experienced at managing this separation than Ranger and the Grays, they have also experienced this separation.
       
      2) In a temporary integration attempt with Ranger, he tried to absorb all of me. I was mostly absorbed into him to the point where Ranger realized he was an integration for a brief moment in a dream he had while taking a nap. However, Ranger felt there was still more of me to absorb and he couldn't absorb it, despite his best efforts. Given that Ranger absorbed the other two parts, we concluded that this third part is separate from the other two.
       
      3) When merged with Ranger, we have found that I can break merges if I feel the pressing desire to do so. Again, the first two parts are absorbed, so we assumed that this piece is separate from the former two. The only exception was our first merge, Aziraphale, where he neared the point of blacking out when he thought of us as separate entities, so we concluded that this piece of me was at least partly absorbed into that merge.
       
      Part of the annoyance is identifying what the third part is. Referring back to reason 3, it's the part of me that's directly connected with the body and does in fact relate to consciousness. I believe this is a critical piece of "you" that needs to be switched out during a switch, but others have disagreed.
       
      Rejecting the idea it is a part of me would be problematic. We would have to accept that our possession is switching and it will not change the fact Ranger will still experience all of the same problems of losing body control to me or blending with me as part of being "switched out". In other words, we would be agreeing to a model that assumes the host and tulpa are unequal and the host has power over all of the tulpas indefinitely. I feel like calling this part the body OS will have the same results. It still falls on the model that the host is superior since the "body OS" just prioritizes the host, and the tactic to accomodate that is to barely make the host active at all and hope that the tulpa can express themself the majority of the time to minimize issues with blending and confusion.
       
      The model we believe in is the one where a tulpa and host can trade positions, so a tulpa can gain the unequal leverage a host normally has and give it back, thus making a tulpa fundamentally equal to a host. Our model assumes only states of consciousness are designed on unequal footing, the "host" and "tulpa" positions, but not the tulpa and host themselves.
       
      However, I made a lot of assumptions regarding what fundamentally counts as you and what doesn't. It's possible that the piece of me in wonderland for example is less of me than I originally thought. In fact, is it a piece that I should even be considered as being me?
       
      Here are some other questions I thought of:
       
      + Is mindvoice really you, or how Ranger put it, are you your words?
      + Is your presence you, or is it a label, like a name?
      + Are you your form? What is symbolism and why is it used as a guide during switching?
      + Are you your emotions? Are emotions like a tool, just like language? Does the body force you to feel things or are emotions always generated by the identity?
      + Are memories you? Is the "I" label the only reason why the identity is yours, or is there more to it than that?
      + Is your thought process you?
      + When you dwell on your thoughts, is that you reacting to a collection of thoughts and memories sitting in short term memory? Is that a process shared by everyone in the mind or just you?
      + What is an internal narrator? Is it mindvoice or is it a thought process? Why is it you? Is it parallel processing if there are multiple of these?
       
      This is far from a complete list, so if you believe there are missing or redundant parts feel free to call them out.
    • By TheMortalHulk
      We tried switching, and I wanna ask, is this right?
       
      1. I still can feel everything that's happening, except Joe is the Main voice and POV (at least I think he is. I was able to think of other stuff while he was doing something else entirely, but only for a short time)
      2. By the time we got home and I'm in control, Joe needed to rest for a while
       
      I just want to make sure we got it right
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