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Odd state: random, disorganized thoughts

Apollo Fire

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[align=justify]When waking up or going to sleep, we very often enter a state where our thoughts are random, disorganized, sometimes nonsensical, and often difficult to remember. I don't know if this is common but I'm assuming it is.


Something we've noticed lately is that when we are trying to switch, sometimes our mind will enter that state. It's like our brain is trying to go to sleep, just without any tiredness. Does anyone else experience this? We've been playing around with it as a potential means for host dissociation. Might be useful, might not.[/align]

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The state of hazy thoughts and all that is called "Hypnagogia" upon falling asleep or "Hypnopompia" upon waking up, and is part of a normal's human sleep cycle yes, although some people wake up/fall asleep more quickly than others or are less conscious for it. Those times can be really good for visualization practice!


As for switching.. for the reverse maybe, we found in the past that the pre-waking-up period could be used to switch if we somehow decided to, but I don't know what to say about it happening when trying to switch. Seems like a not so related phenomenon, but I guess in the end it's mostly brainwave stuff, so if you wanted to do a lot of in-depth research to not get much of an answer, you could look into alpha/beta/delta/gamma/theta waves maybe?


We don't experience that ourselves, we only use a very quick-and-simple meditative state (really just focusing on our breath for 20 seconds or so, maybe more if we're really unfocused) to switch. But y'know, I bet some 2012 tulpamancers who could switch might've tried like, super deep hour long meditations to do it, so I wouldn't count that concept out because of our experience.

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For decades, I only noticed the confused "thought shredding" aspects of hypagogia, but Bear system has written many times about spontaneous imposition during hypnagogia and there are multiple approved guides, such as this one, for making use of it in visualization practice. For the past several months, I've been picking up on flashes of random nonsensical imagery during hypnagogia, though nothing imposed.


During hypnopompia, we are still wrapped up in "dream logic" and sometimes dream stories even continue to play in the mind's eye, without immersion. Hold on the front is nebulous and loose. Whoever was switched in for bed and whoever's perspective the dream was from don't have heavy impact on who wakes up switched in. But Vesper and Iris both hate the disorientation of hypnapompia, so they immediately bail out if they wake up switched in.


We have never experienced anything like hypnagogia while switching. But switching only took us a few seconds preparation at first and takes no discernable time at all now. It's always been very much like a light switch flipping; it isn't gradual and there isn't an experience within the switching itself.



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For some reason, that is a really hard state for me to achieve before going to sleep, and that annoys me. That state of mind where Cat is lost in nonsensical thought is sometimes the last thing Cat remembers before going to sleep. This also happens sometimes if Cat wakes up and is half-asleep. For me, I find that it's really hard for me to be in this state, and usually the brain will kick me out and default back to Cat before dozing off.


Cat has achieved that state while meditating before, so that may be the reason why you are experiencing it during switching attempts. Normally though, we have the opposite case: we have the tiredness and not the nonsensical thinking.


I would play around with it. If you find that one of you are responsible for talking out loud in mindvoice in this state, maybe you will also become the one dreaming too. Can't say from personal experience though.

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Random nonsensical thoughts, is how I usually experience the hypnagogic state. I also get random mental images, and on the rare occasion, a very vivid image will flash. I rarely experience an actual hallucination. Hypnopompia for me is a little different, more like random mini dreams, much more image based.


What kind of switching method are you using when this happens? If it involves sitting or laying still with your eyes closed for a while, I'm not surprised if it causes hypnagogia.

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[Jay] this actually sounds very similar to what happens to us when we try to switch either of us out. The method involved is similar too, although it is a bit different.


When we try to switch, we passively let our mind wander instead of either focusing on clearing our head of all thoughts, or focusing on switching alone. Just let the thoughts happen, dont pay too much attention to them, just let them happen. At a certain point we do enter a state like you described, and if we successfully dont pay attention to being in that state (again, just let it happen), we sometimes experience the start of a switch. We’ve never come past that though, considering at that stage we get shocked out of it.


I should mention that while letting our mind wander we often dissociate at least a little. Like being unable to hear all of the sudden. And right before the switch-out we arent really aware of anything at all. It’s very similar to falling asleep, if that makes sense?


[Parda] plus there’s the fact that we found out we’re mixed-origins, we naturally tend to dissociate thanks to trauma stuff. Maybe this won’t 100% apply to you, but we still figured our experiences might be helpful?

Mixed-origins system. Co-hosts are Parda and Jay.

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