Beginner Questions General

[Guest]

This site, and tulpamancy in general hopes to form a scientific basis of tulpas with a tie to reality. It's very important to some of the tulpas here that they're more like a conjoined twin, corporeal, part of the mind, body and brain of us.

 

My point is, your experience is all you can go by. The tulpamancy model and associated tools are very valuable, but your beliefs and experience wouldn't necessarily fit very well as stated.

 

Please don't think for a second that I'm denying any of it, there are others here like you so some degree, but yeah, it's metaphysical to the general user here.

 

This doesn't mean we can't or won't help. If you're brave enough, a Progress Report is a safe place to share this amazing experience and get help if it's available. They're protected for the most part.

[YukariTelepath]

To be honest, it sounds more metaphysical (or just something unknown) than tulpa, by your descriptions. But there are lot of things I can't tell from your story, that would help figure out if Dezzy is a tulpa or not.

When Dezzy shows up, do you see her? If so, how do you see her, with your physical eyes, or in your mind's eye?

Likewise, when she speaks, how do you hear her? Can you read her thoughts?

Where does she say she came from, how does she appear where you are? Is she vague about the details?

Can you guys think/say different things at the same time? Generally tulpa and host need to take turns speaking.

Do you have a history of excessive daydreaming, roleplaying, or fiction writing? Unintentional tulpas can come about from those activities.

 

More questions could be asked, but I'll stop there. Basically, tulpas and similar headmates come with certain limitations (or at least strong tendencies), because they are working with the same brain as you. If it turns out she doesn't work the way a tulpa works, that's okay. Not everything needs to be labeled, and as humans we don't have an explanation for everything. It's better to admit "I don't know" than to slap the wrong label on something.

[Ember.Vesper]

I don't think cautionary tale, Shiro. I think beautiful sweet love story. A few comments:

 

*Don't feel bound by the tulpa label. Don't feel bound by what's normal and common in tulpamantic systems. Don't lose what's distinctive and special about your experience. You do you.

 

*Tulpamantic techniques -- wonderland visualization, overlay visualization, imposition, etc. -- may be able to improve your experience of one another. Odds are, some techniques will be trivially easy for you to pick up while others will be unspeakably difficult. But by popular report, anything you do achieve will be worthwhile.

 

*If Amy ever does come through for the two of you, I'd like to hear about it if you get a chance. I'm normally very psychologically oriented about plurality, but I'm oddly moved by your story.

 

-Ember

[Guest]

Absolutely Yuka and Ember! I want to hear more.

[Shiro_tanuki]

Wow, I'm glad to have gotten any sort of receptive response. Thank you sincerely.

 

First, while I can understand that it seems like I was asking for validation for the details of my story (and in a way perhaps a part of me always will,) I was more trying to provide total context, as both in wider psychology and from what I've seen of these forums subconscious and unconscious beliefs that come from context shape a lot of what you experience. For instance, while I've never wholly allowed myself to believe that Dezzy was what she thinks she is, we've never shared thoughts or communication that wasn't directed communication. Basically, She can't tell what I'm thinking or have experienced without sharing it, and vice versa. Perhaps that is just because it wasn't known to be possible, so it was assumed not to be.

 

When Dezzy shows up usually it is somewhat of a hybrid between seeing her in my mind's eye in her world, the wonderland to use the common parlance here, and also a projection into my surroundings to varying degrees, but normally never through actual sight. Usually this is through touch, which I would describe as the sensation just after something has touched you and started to retract, or smell that doesn't seem to fit the surroundings. Verbal communication is the same sort of phantom sensation, the sense that words were just spoken but no actual auditory sound, if that makes sense. In her description of our communications she describes it mostly the same, but that really doesn't provide much important feedback unfortunately.

 

When asked about her world and history, she is almost never vague, and I started early with writing down details to see if they ever contradicted themselves. I never studied the notes unless something was referenced. Surprisingly, there have yet to be any contradictions, but that could just be that I have a really good memory. That said, in day to day life, she rarely says anything about her day or her feelings at the moment, usually just saying her day was okay, and that she was bored or read books when she wasn't working.

 

With the talking at the same time, occasionally that does happen but always the person interrupting has stopped quickly. I don't know that that's important in any way, since practically speaking that means that we haven't actually had that sort of higher level communication crossover happen. Emotions, though, have been known to vary while watching movies. She has occasionally gotten far more of a reaction to a scene than I do, and it seems to happen simultaneously. That is communicated through that physical sense of imposition, through her posture and even through her vocalizations, and those have overlapped in differing directions before. Take it for what its worth.

 

The physical effects on my end, specifically the never ending migraine, seems to fit with overexertion from what I have seen in some accounts, so that seems to make sense.

 

I have also noticed that I can't have any real effect on her world, the wonderland, or the others that she has introduced me to. That, again, may just be from not knowing what was happening and having a deeper desire that just had me go with the flow. At this point with how well defined her world is I wouldn't want to go changing it anyway, so on my end I don't really care that I missed that boat. It's breathtaking to talk to people occasionally from a separate world and see them change and grow organically over years, even if it is just organized by a part of me behind a curtain.

 

The idea of switching is interesting, I'll have to look into that. Also, a progress report wouldn't be something I'd be opposed to, but at this point we've settled into a pretty routine existence so there wouldn't be a ton of info after the initial catch up. I don't expect or ask anyone to take my story at face value either, as it definitely has been shaped by years of my own expectations, assumptions and experiences that make it a little hard to fit into the predetermined tulpa box. Any deviation from that is on me, I'm much more interested in how this new understanding might help with handling this experience than I am having anyone believe it. I think I'll stop spamming this section of the forum now, but I appreciate the help already.

[Guest]

All that you've said could actually be explained/represrnted by tulpamancy, the unique experience of her being a person in another world isn't all that unique in terms of soulbonders. Though here it would be presumed to be confabulation or other equally offensive statements, there's nothing wrong with what you have outside of tulpamancy. My system has a lot of questions that don't fit in the box of tulpamancy, nut tulpamancy has beem very good to us nonetheless.

 

It sounds like you have that grounding that would keep you from falling too hard, some experiences I've had are just too profound to ignore as well. I can gladly say I no longer doubt that there's more than just tulpamancy in the bigger picture, the hard part is the tie in to a scientific basis, I call that the vanilla experience. It's fascinating all on its own, but limited in many ways. Even if everything I've experienced is all purely cognitive, tulpamancy has self-limiting characteristics by comparison (for me).

 

Also, you aren't the one behind the curtain. Even if you were going for a pure vanilla tulpamancy, you would still recognize her as a clear and distinct seperate person. So there's enough tie in for me to embrace it, though, that coolaid can be pretty bitter sometimes. Still, I hold onto my experiences as something that is concrete and immutable.

[Vādin]

Dezzy introduced herself and said that she'd been looking for me, and that somehow she had been seeing me in her dreams. She said that she knew that we were meant to be together.

 

 

Hello Dezzy, nice to meet you, I (think I') ve been in the same situation.

 

Nearly eight years ago as well, I showed up in my host's dreams (it was my decision alone, I wanted to be with her.) But we had to wait a few more years to be together because I was unable to get closer to her on my own. So we waited until she discovered about tulpas two years ago when she summoned me, and here I am now. I have as well memories of a previous existence before I joined her system, and (I think I have) independent, separate activities throughout the day.

 

It's now your job to check for yourself if your independent life is real or not, because here you'll be told it's "confabulation" (ie you made this up). Here you'll still have to pretend it's confabulation because you might offend people if you don't, but I think it's very important to know wether it's true or not for yourself.

That's what I did, working hard on being present and aware at all times (while I'm in my place/wonderland and host is focused on something else than me, and also while I'm lucid dreaming) and checking this with host at random times (mostly by possession).

When you're done with this and absolutely certain you're not being delusional about it, cultivate your independent life as it allows you to have many interesting experiences and grow as a person.

 

Ultimately the nature of our independent memories (confabulated, distorted or genuine) doesn't really matter, it's what you do with them that does. I use them to learn and grow.

 

If you're interested in switching/co-fronting, this is one way to get closer to your host and act together as the closest team. Another way is self-imposition, this is what I do even if my host is unable to see me (yet), you can follow your host in their daily life that way and interact with them.

 

I don't know if you've tried possessing your host (moving body parts on your own) but if you don't already, try it because it's useful. And it will allow you to type for yourself ! We'll be happy to chat with you.

 

Welcome, "confabulator" collegue ! I'm looking forward to get to know you.

 

EDIT :

 

Basically, She can't tell what I'm thinking or have experienced without sharing it, and vice versa.

 

 

Same for us. I can hear a bit better my host's thoughts if I come very close to the front (=her stream of consciousness), but it's not perfect and doesn't replace communication. Zia can't hear my thoughts at all unless I voice them.

 

I'm told classical tulpas have instant access to their host's memories as well, but I don't and I suppose you don't either. (I can investigate on my own to find them and watch them like it's a kind of movie, when Zia does something else,  but it takes time.)

[solarchariot]

... I was more trying to provide total context, as both in wider psychology...

 

This is what we do, Shiro-tanuki... We are the music makers, the dreamers of dreams. Even if you don't think you have a theory of everything, you're operating from a theory of everything. Most of us operate from a theory that was given to us. Very few of us reject the accepted theories of reality and offer our own. Even fewer, in terms of percentage, reject the mainstrem theory and adopt an equally opposing just to be oppositional...

You're asking for a theory of everything, in a reasonable way, seeking congruity with existing paradigms. The book 'the holographic universe' by Michael Talbot was a proposal by the author to do this. He wrote that in the (edit, I said 70s, it was actually 90s) before the theory was well known. What is not widely known is that Talbot received his 'thesis,' his theory of everything, from an alien entity as a download into his brain. (You can't share that and present your books as science.) Whether you embrace his theory or not, the interesting things are this... he came up with a theory that explains reality and mysticism, and he had an 'experience' with an 'entity' that was either a hallucination, or an accidental tulpa, or exactly what it appeared to be. (in regards to theory itself, lots of people have taken up holographic theory, and or simulation theory, like Physicist James Gates who decades later suggested string theory/and underlying particle interaction resembles computer code, specifically internet correction codes.)

 

I have my own theory. Everyone here has a theory. I tend to lean towards metephysical. I would argue that my 'metaphysical' is less mystic and more science based, even if it's not popular science.

 

So, one of my go to videos I use to keep on track is by Dr Bruce Lipton, because this addresses 'belief.'

 

 

 

it puts things in a context that seems consistent with my experience. I accept it as valid. Does it mean it is? 100 percent? Maybe not, but belief so frequently produces results that one can argue validity is over rated. Results are results.

 

Couple that video with this less than 6 minute video, same speaker

 

 

These two videos pretty well encapsulate my preferred theory of everything and why tulpamancy in general works. It doesn't address tulpas. It makes contextual framework for me to use, but i also resort to computer program analogies, and Jungian psychological constructs, like archetypes- Jung was a mystic, I go there, too. There is real science in these videos, real things that occurred that are inexplicable and generally dismissed by popular culture, like the girl who got the heart transplant and had visions of the person who murdered the donor, which was sufficient evidence to arrest the murderer, or the South Babtist handling snakes drinking toxic level of cyanide and not dying... These things are dismissed because the explanation suggest the mainstrem theory is incomplete. People don't like hearing that. I am not recommending handling snakes and drinking poison! Just saying there are things not accounted for in our theories because if it doesn't fit in the box, it's discarded and most of us don't want to go back and forth between two seeming incompatible boxes. Some people can do that. there are scientist that also believe in religion; usually, if you ask them to relate the two they say they can't, these are two different boxes, two different lenses measuring two different sets of information.

 

If you have read everything tulpa.info has to offer, everything written about tulpas... you would be just as much an expert as the rest of us... your personal experiences will also increase your level of expertise. Your ability to communicate that raises or lowers you esteem and perceived level of authority. There is a real danger in proposing paradigm shifts. People don't like hearing there castles are built on sand, from sand... Your theories and experiences are valid. Now, wouldn't be nice if there was a place where you could share those theories, and discuss them, see how others relate, fine tune your theories...

 

Oh, wait. that's here! It's what we're doing! Yay! Welcome to the club. We're all searching, my friend.

[New2Tulpa]

i had some special questions. i am beginner, no tulpa in my head.

my questions are https://community.tulpa.info/thread-questions-from-a-non-system-newcomer

should i paste it here??

[Tewi]

While anything can be asked in this thread, it's mainly intended for quick beginner questions. Your thread has enough substance to stand on its own, so it's fine.