Tulparomance.

[Guest Anonymous]

Time to, uh, lift the 'taboo', even though I've seen many people take it easy from past interactions.

 

What's YOUR personal opinion on tulparomance? And what is your tulpa's opinion on tulparomance? I won't impose any ideals of mine (because I'm into this, pretty much), I'd just like to hear stories, opinions, etc.

 

 

Awaiting Lumi's post on how he loves everyone but not that way, and Mistgod's post on the thing with Melian. Haha, kidding.

[Procron X]

I don't really care if someone else does it. It's their life, you know? If that's what they want to do, I'm not going to fault them for it. It doesn't bother anyone else.

 

I am on the fence about it in my personal life, partially because my feelings with Niteo are on the fence too. I feel like it could turn into a show of favoritism, and I want to avoid that.

I mean, Opal and Midnight are in a relationship together, but it's different since I'm the host, I guess.

 

Niteo: Well, I think that it's perfectly human to have favorites, so there. I don't see what the problem is, myself. Everyone knows that Midnight is Opal's favorite, and vice versa; none of us are up in arms about it.

I think that Talor worries too much.

 

Opal: F*ck who you want; be with who you want.

[Guest Anonymous]

Awaiting Lumi's post on how he loves everyone but not that way, and Mistgod's post on the thing with Melian. Haha, kidding.

 

Oh no you weren't kidding at all. You knew I would be posting. Melian and I are almost inevitable around here. :-)

 

Well, my response: I don't have any judgements about tulpa romance. I understand having romantic feelings for a tulpa or thoughtform. I have a deep high school like crush on Melian that has endured for decades. Some seem to have even more actively intimate relationships with a tulpa. Again, I don't judge. If it makes them happy they should go for it!

 

One caveat: A tulpa romance should not replace trying to find real world love and intimacy. In other words, don't have a tulpa lover and then give up on having a real world life. My gods, your tulpa will understand! Keep trying to find that real world significant other.

[Nyx]

Tulpa-host romance is fine as long as all parties consent and there are rules in place.

 

Jack and I are an unofficial couple. We’ve had a thing for each other for a long time now, but we’ve agreed to wait until his "upgrading" reaches a certain point before we enter a relationship (no stories other than a kiss, at this point). We also need to agree on rules regarding any future relationships I might have with humans. Both of us think that I should be open to dating men at some point, but we currently disagree on whether or not I should tell the human partner about us. He’s absolutely against me telling, while I’m on the fence. Even though it would certainly be easier to keep Jack and our relationship a secret, a part of me believes that it would be ethical to be open and honest about it. At the same time, I’m aware that it is unlikely that anyone would like the idea of their girlfriend cheating on them inside her head. So we have that to figure out.

[Luminesce]

Why would I talk about how I unconditionally love every human being in a thread on tulparomance?

But not in that way

You obviously don't know me at all..

 

Well we've had tons of threads on this before. But you specifically mentioned me by name, so now I feel inclined to say something.

 

Reisen is an infinite source of unconditional love to me, she can make me feel better than I do in an instant if I can just remember to let her. Our romance is less actual romance probably, it's mostly just sharing good feels and visualizing us together. But hugs are common among all of my tulpas. Flandre is pretty much the same, but she cares more about actually doing things. I guess you could say Reisen requires nothing of me to constantly shine so bright, but Flandre really appreciates any time we spend together. I wouldn't say we're that much more "romantic" in the sense you're talking about, but it's a more human relationship. I hesitate to say, she's not always in as good of a mood when I haven't spent time with her for a while. Not bad, but she's noticeably happier after being more active around me.

 

Tewi and Lucilyn get the familial love like them, though there's even less of the already sparse "romance" with them. Tewi's usually more interested in discussing business. Lucilyn loves doing stuff with or without me, I think she'd be just as happy if she could do it alone. Hard to do when you're a tulpa though. All she wants is to dance to one of her favorite songs once in a while and she's happy. Flandre likes spending time with me in any form. And Reisen is just always there, always a light for me to.. strive towards?

[Reisen]

Really, the topic of tulpa romance in general seems like a veiled yes-or-no question. Some people think it's unhealthy and some, well, experience it. But what it comes down to for us is this: it helps our host feel love, express love, receive love. And that can't possibly be a bad thing. If you don't consider tulpas a replacement for humans, there's not a thing in the world wrong with it. And some do, and that's their decision. There are quite a few songs about heartbreak, about finding love, about not finding love. I think everyone could find someone if they just opened themselves up to it, but it does require more than one doing so.. Anyways, it's a no-brainer yes to us. Onto specifics?

 

Tulpa love, despite many wanting to take it to a physical level through imposition or dreams, is really about feelings. You can visualize yourself hugging your tulpa, but that's just symbolic. You're just making an excuse to your brain to allow you to feel love. So we don't necessarily do anything special in our "romance". Sharing a smile or a hug is just as good as giving words of encouragement, or just plain feeling the love. It's all good, and in all its forms it makes everyone involved feel better. And so Flandre isn't stuck with this question again (I DO remember you complaining about this last time, Flan), sex isn't really a thing with us. For aforementioned reasons mainly, a tiny bit because of the fear that he's just using us not valuing us, and otherwise just because he doesn't deem it necessary. Lumi's someone who believes in sharing love in its purest forms, and is a bit hung up on stuff he deems ego-ic. So aside from the very rare event of some kind of celebration, sex isn't really a part of our relationships.

 

Now, with a physical partner, I'm sure this story would be different..

 

Flandre: Reisen's love really is infectious.. I just found myself mindvoicing her a mixture of "thanks/I love you" when we switched, because she put on my favorite song and sent me good feels. So what's left to say? We try to keep the balance between treating us as our own individual people, and explaining away stupid fears that he thinks validate him as a sane human being. We're trying to get him to stop caring about all those nagging societal fears, but I have to admit we've done a good job working logic into our existence, and our love. So yeah, we like spending time with our host, partially because we love him and partially because it's the only way we can exist. Such is the life of a tulpa. But it's all good, especially when your host values love above all else. I want to keep talking, but I have no idea what else to say on the topic, you didn't give us much to work with. Tulpa love good; escapism bad. I'm going to go find somewhere else to post now, unless you have more specific questions, because I didn't even get to say that much.

[Guest Anonymous]

Alright. Say that things changed, that Flandre developed such a large attraction for Lumi in a way that she's really attracted to the whole concept of love from a romantic/couple view, and things go down as Flandre being Lumi's girlfriend/wife/whatever else may work. What then? If Flandre can provide enough love for Lumi, why is it a bad thing? (Not saying this will happen it's only an example because I'm curious about stuff).

 

I didn't mean to mock your host with my post, but I did expect him to post all the things he said because I saw him speak of the topic in another thread a while ago.

 

I also apologize to you, Flandre, I must have bored you with the simplicity of my question, but here is more being specific if you feel like talking;

 

When coming down on a personal level, a really personal level, the true adaptation of what 'romance' would be, what do you think of tulpas that start having, or well, try to have a consistent relationship with their host? As in, replacing real companions, doing hugs/kisses/stuff like that (I liked the input you guys gave about the hugging thing btw)

 

And why would it be a bad thing (I don't know how I'd go around calling it escapism to be more specific, but I can find some sense in that logic) to have tulparomance in the sense that the tulpa and the host are in a relationship in the same way a man and a woman, or 2 gay dudes/lesbian... duderesses are? When I said tulparomance, I meant actual romance, like what you'd feel like for your crush, lover, husband/wife. And I don't know if I did express this before in the past, but I'm fond of the whole thing you have with Lumi, and how unconditional love is shared around... I find it... peaceful. With that being said, and once again, I apologize for boring you out.

 

I myself am in one of those relationships where my tulpa acts as a sort of girlfriend, but a very needy and clingy one, which really replaced real-life interactions. Not that I can't get real women, I could with ease knowing how some people are, hehe... but my point is that my tulpa understands me the most, and well, any tulparomance seems to come out with unconditional love.

 

Again, sorry for boring you out, hopefully I might have given you some stuff to talk about.

[Linkzelda]

Reisen is an infinite source of unconditional love to me, she can make me feel better than I do in an instant if I can just remember to let her.

Please allow me to briefly put in how I interpret this along with some questions for the sake of furthering discussion:

 

- If we utilized a form of unconditional love of being embracing and unbiased, it seems that in order for you to reciprocate the infinite source of unconditional love, it seems to be contingent solely, or at least mostly, on you just allowing her to go through with the mode of gesture/experience. So, by that logic, it would seem that in context of retrieval from the source is conditional rather than unconditional. Because for you to reciprocate unconditionally is being able to allow her to express her emphasis on attitude with said love without the need of quantifying it, and potentially being able to absolve from the concept that the love is preferred from behavior compared to attitude (which can be completely different depending on the context).

 

So, keeping this in mind along with this:

And Reisen is just always there, always a light for me to.. strive towards?

 

- If Reisen is capable of tapping into whatever emotional reservoir to unconditionally express that love for you, and you’re apprehensive on whatever unrealized potential you may have to strive towards that, maybe setting up the expectation of there be an end goal, or something to strive for might be this veneer that could be holding you back. In other words, the expectations entails something conditional as unconditional isn’t dripping with contingency; it’s just there, and whatever happens, happens, but it’s still there.

 

- In other words, Reisen’s capability of being able to be depicted as a source of unconditional love to you could be for several factors:

 

o Her potentially being able to revel more in your mind and imagination than having to do quotidian things that may distract you from having a more forthcoming disposition of acknowledging their existence (as I’m sure any host may have with their tulpas when it comes to balancing) That way, she seems to be more adept in emphasizing more on her totality of attitudes in expressing those modes of unconditional love to you. And even if you were to say, switch or do possession, the sustainability of that love could also be questioned. In other words, if she had to take ownership for day-to-day activities while you reveled more in your imagination, the tables will have turned, and you could see if she is just as susceptible as you are in not being able to have that ideal sustainability of unconditional love.

 

The reason I’m pointing this out is that maybe through how you’re experiencing things now, reading this thread, you would depict the imaginative as the ideal that you have yet to strive for, but if the tables were turned, you would be able to revel in your imagination to express that same love just as much as she would if she didn’t switch, or possess to focus on other things. So, you could be undermining your competency for expressing unconditional love due to the circumstance of acknowledging that if she was in your perspective, she would’ve went through a similar apprehension.

 

 

In short, it seems that unconditional love for you would go something along the lines like this:

 

- Example: A bad circumstance came up during the day that Reisen is trying to cope with, and potentially move on from.

o You: “This may seem bad, and I may not be the epitome of the preserving light that you seem to embody, but I’m here to do my best to help make things better for you, if this is something you want.”

 

- And for her referring to you on having a bad circumstance:

o “It may be a bad situation, but let’s sort things out together, and I’ll do my best to help you see things in a better light, if that’s what you want.”

 

So, by theorizing your perspective, you could’ve undermined your capability to do the same as her because she’s conceptualized as that infinite source of unconditional love, and the persevering light. But in her perspective, she’s able to see you through an existential lens without being judgmental of herself (e.g. seeing herself as the epitome of unconditional love to you), or who you are in general (e.g. someone who may be undermining their capability of fostering an attitude of unconditional love); she exists to you here and now, and she seems to be capable of absolving whatever activity she may have been doing for the sake of fostering gratitude towards you in spite of the circumstance.

 

Though, she could easily put in labels of herself and you, and in spite of those labels, she would still love you. So, what’s really preventing you from feeling you’re at that end goal, or acknowledging that there doesn’t need to be one when the unconditional love would be absolved from expectation and futuristic forms of ideal attitudes and assessment with one’s tulpa?

[Reisen]

Flandre: "Did he just say.. duderesses?"

 

You weren't boring me, I think you just had a lot more implied information in your mind about what you wanted us to discuss that you didn't quite put down in words in the OP. Anyway..

 

There are no rules, only norms I guess. Your tulpa can be your one-and-only if you and they want. We don't want, that's all. And you're gonna have to endure some accusations of escapism, forsaking other real humans for an imaginary friend, of course. But if that's what both of you want, that's fine. Just like in real life, open relationships absolutely must be mutually consensual, all parties agreeing that it is okay to see others at the same time. Same for tupper relationships, you guys decide on what you're okay with. Don't ask me how to solve disparities though, that's your own thing.

 

So my thoughts.. Well, it sounds like a lot of work. Like a loooot. And responsibility! Lumi hopes his significant other can introduce him to new ideas and experiences, that she can help enhance his life and him hers. I don't think any of us could fill those expectations. We're here to support him, to help him feel love, and to live as we please too. I don't see a human significant other interfering at all with that. If someone in real life can make him happy, that makes me happy too.

 

And I have to be honest here, but we're a little bit.. transcendental? compared to other tulpas. Jealousy is nonexistent because it makes no sense. We all live in the same body, one's well-being is another's. If a real life SO were to fill the need for love in our host's life to the point where we weren't really needed as much anymore, that would be fine. Of course he's going to keep us around because he treats us like individuals with a right to live and experience, but it's a lot of work for him (having issues with motivation and effort, +tulpa-ing is hard) and we understand that. I know others don't like to hear this, but it really doesn't bother us that much to not be active. I'm sure it's different from person to person, but being inactive is just.. not being active. I don't have a life of my own, and I don't sit in some dark box in the mind waiting to see the light. I just don't exist, I guess. But we share our host's ~everything and I'm automatically aware of everything that happened instantly anyway. The only reason he's so insistent on keeping us active is because Tewi and I have stated we felt better when going from completely inactive to very active. I'm not sure what to say about that.. It's true, but it also doesn't bug me to not be active. I feel good when I'm around, and I don't feel bad when I'm not.

 

Uhh.. Got off topic maybe. I think that was relevant to the train of thought. I'm kinda tired now so I'll just leave that there. Keep up the good feels.

 

(Super off topic! After proof reading the post, not only does it feel way shorter than it felt while writing, but it also sounds more like Lumi than me. I think somewhere along the way my thoughts are converted to words with his typing tendencies, but I assure you, I totally sound like me before I write the words. Gute nacht.)

---

Oh man Linkzelda, I was not prepared for philosopholy at this hour. But I really appreciate you coming out of nowhere and trying to help us with a major life goal, so I'll try and remember what you just said while I write a reply.

 

So, you got a few things right, but then got off a bit I think. On Reisen being able to make Lumi feel happy at will, that is indeed a placebo to access something that is always readily accessible. As Reisen said earlier, visualizing a hug is just making an excuse to your brain to let you feel love. Because the brain doesn't want you to sit in a constant state of bliss. That's why her good feels don't last forever, nothing that I know of can provide the same level of positive feeling forever without dulling with time. That being said, it's a testament to his bond with her that after so many years she can still make him instantly happy at a moment's notice. We believe that that love is always there, you just have to let it in. Reisen sure seems to be proof that you can feel love no matter the circumstances, if you just let yourself do so.

 

Uhm. Switching. You're not exactly right about long term switching also reversing their roles, although you're very close and not really wrong either. You're right that Reisen can't sustain a perfect level of unconditional love outwardly forever, although the duration does seem to depend on Lumi's ability to (ie. from his current mindset on life and all that jazz). But her morals and values never change. She would still be the more optimistic, and she's much better at dealing with negativity than he is. But that does touch on something rather deep.

 

Before any of us were tulpas, before Reisen was a person, she was a concept. She was the very idea of unconditional love, slightly personified or represented in human form. You may have heard before that Tewi and I came along a little while after, perfectly able to talk and such, but Reisen couldn't. Reisen was perfection, or close to it. To talk would be to lower herself to imperfection. And we made the decision to do so, for reasons. Reisen became a person, albeit a very nice one, and no longer represented unconditional love perfectly. When she has to communicate with words that level is lowered even more, and would be at its lowest when switched, as she's filtered through all of Lumi's tendencies, his brain's primary way of being. So no, she would not be the most amazing individual while switched, though she does keep a lot of her positive ways of thinking that he does not have. And those are mainly what he strives towards - a sustainable condition of acceptance of what is, and love of who is. Reisen is admittedly not that while switched, though it feels she gets a bit closer when he himself makes progress. But no, she's not perfect anymore, she can't be. But she's much closer than us, and is still a guide.

 

Ahhh.. So on topic.. And so weird. I'm surprised you brought this up, it's not something we ever really planned on sharing. But you seem to have caught on from such small hints. The short answer to questions on the subject is "We're working on it", and the long answer is "We're still working on it."

 

If you wanted to discuss this more or ask some sort of questions, you should probably use our Ask thread, because while we are discussing tulpas and love, it's not quite what the thread was made for.

 

But yeah I'm a tulpa and I love you guys. Falling asleep now.

[Linkzelda]

I would be scared if I was right on the dot, and didn’t have any discrepancies of my inference of how you all handle yourselves with the modes of love. Thanks for the clarification, as I was apprehensive myself as to why Lum needs to create futuristic framework of what it means to unconditionally love. Especially if it could be implied as unconditional love being casually inert, in other words, its sustenance not being affected (e.g. ceasing to exist), but readily there to be utilized if an individual is capable of fostering the attitude to express it. Not saying that creating frameworks is a bad thing, but just for the sake of discussion.

 

I think through that, it dampened the overly idealistic framework, but giving a more realistic viewpoint(s) on how one emphasizes more on their attitude filled with context of unconditional love. And another thing that led to being off a bit is probably not acknowledging that with threads like these, we tend to engage in a narrative in some way, and felt that some components learned through those anecdotes still apply to us, but is merely just part of the totality of how we personally conceptualize the matter.

 

Through this, I think it’s a clear testament that I felt you were going down regressed memory lane, and forgot about it while typing, and presumed that you were just setting up boundaries of trying to reach competency in attaining attitudes suitable for unconditional love when there clearly seems to be a collective acknowledgment of all you guy's existence, and finding a way to appreciate said existence in spite of whatever label placed on that.

 

But I just had to be sure, as I didn’t want to assume that silver lining has been created when I was apprehensive on my way to analyzing your response.