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Skepticism


Sea

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The thread was over when they decided nothing was important but the actual proof of sentience. Proving a tulpa is sentient is equivalent to proving a solipsist wrong, ie proving your sentience to anyone else. As far as we know, it's impossible.

 

The only legitimate part was that we assume our tulpas are sentient without said proof, and tell others they are so. Too bad we do the same for the entirety of the human race.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us about tulpamancy stuff there.

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Perhaps it was all just a troll, and we hardcore took the bait?

"Try to get a better understanding of things before making your judgement." -Khan, Metro 2033

 

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all of your accusations are wrong and heres why.

Najere: This sort of assertion sends me into a giggle fit. I was about to get on my debating sopabox, and then I read this and it killed my mood. It's difficult to argue with someone who claims we 100% all house confirmation bias and yet has such an overblown self-confirmation bias themselves.

And you know, we're the ones with experience in this. He hasn't even tried it. Not only that, but I'm pretty sure there are lots of people in the community who started out skeptical and later had a change of mind after devoting proper time to the practice.

 

EDIT: Or else Brassow is right, and we're all chumps who took the bait.

A queer soulbonding system with tulpamantic influences.

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I'm always so late when a new thread comes around.

 

I share Lumi's (and others') opinion. There really is no point trying to objectively prove the existence of tulpas if no one will take or cares to take the effort to validate their sentience. If they feel real to you then I honestly do not know why we even have to question it. Tulpamancy is similar to a religion, you have to have faith in something you may never be able to prove.

 

I'm not going to listen to you guys since you are all probably just talking to yourself and don't really have a tulpa like me.

 

 

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I do not understand why there is so much hostility towards Sea.

He has raised legitimate questions, asked for a rational discussion and people go all 'WTF did you say about my waifu...'

We have to accept that what we do here seems completely insane to the absolute majority of people, weird at best. I do not blame him and I do not think that the reactions in this thread are beneficial for this community's reputation.

 

First of all, the most honest answer regarding tulpas (and most other things) we can give is: We don't really know. Especially the sentience part.

 

But I do agree that interacting with a tulpa is probably highly similar to what people claiming to talk to 'god' are experiencing.

I am a rather nihilistic person, but I decided to 'believe' in my tulpa when I started creating her. Because why not?

I never could relate to people believing in god or another superior being, but now, one year later at least I think I know what such people are feeling. Really hard to explain if you haven't experienced it, but a pretty neat feeling.

 

Now here's my 2cts about the whole tulpa phenomenon. Of course nothing more than my personal hypothesis, but based on Kaj Sotala's presentation on tulpas.:

I think it's actually quite simple.

One of the main challenges our brain has to deal with is to form a coherent picture from the poor and often contradicting sensory information it receives and to put it in context with the knowledge it has gained through experience.

The brain is pretty good at this but often a bit overzealous. It will try to make 'sense' of any input it receives, no matter what. which is why we sometimes tend to see, hear and even taste things when the brain expects a certain stimulus, even if it really doesn't occur or is different from the expectation. In fact the brain loves routines and trends to prepare answers in advance. This is essential when facing dangers but also makes it quite easy to fool us.

 

So how to make a tulpa.:

1)Create an entity in your mind

2)Regularly interact with said entity

3)????

4)Profit

 

Point 3) will be carried out by your brain, it will automatically try to fill the gaps to make sense of the whole thing you're pulling off here. And this is where it gets interesting. According to the simulation hypothesis (Hesselow, 2002) thinking consists of simulated interaction with the environment. In order to efficiently interact with other individuals we need to be able to simulate and predict their behavior. Think of having a conversation with a very close friend you know well. Your brain will often predict the responses he is going to give, because it has a complex model of the guy's personality. The brain is constantly trying to evaluate beings we interact with and make heuristic assumptions on their behavior. This is critical for identifying potential threats even before they occur.

 

Now if you persistently interact with a being that isn't there and actively memorize certain attributes of this being the brain will also try to come up with potential responses. And as it can't utilize sensory inputs it will try to compensate that with an internal stimulus. The more complex the brain's database of this being's attributes becomes, the better responses it can provide. This feedback loop will gradually make your tulpa more and more 'realistic'.

Congrats, you now have a tulpa.

 

Or you're crazy. It's only a matter of perspective

 

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Yeah a religion! That is why I always say I am the guru goddess of groovy! See? Yep.

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Perhaps it was all just a troll, and we hardcore took the bait?

 

As soon as I saw the title of the thread I was relatively expecting that. Sea seems to have cared a bit more than the average troll, though. But - I believe we've had the exact same troll in two separate scenarios, the first being outright stupidity and the second pretending to care more. Who knows, maybe they were going for

, stepping it up every time.

 

No difference to me if I don't know though, I'll talk to a could-be troll like I would a skeptic or even on occasion an idiot. It's not trolling if it doesn't upset me, I'm definitely not doing anything better with my time.

Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us about tulpamancy stuff there.

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I do not understand why there is so much hostility towards Sea.

He has raised legitimate questions, asked for a rational discussion and people go all 'WTF did you say about my waifu...'

We have to accept that what we do here seems completely insane to the absolute majority of people, weird at best. I do not blame him and I do not think that the reactions in this thread are beneficial for this community's reputation.

 

Honestly, it's because I find the sort of intellectual discussion he's trying to pose to be simple cowardice. He puts the question out there, sets the terms, but as soon as he puts out his own opinion, he runs away and cuts off the discussion. But because he speaks in a fancy enough fashion, some will come to his defence, saying that his ideas were legitimate, completely ignoring that he made the community dance for him, and left when it came his turn to show us his moves.

 

Is that really the sort of thing we should be entertaining? It's why I don't like these sorts of debate at all, it's way too easy for one person to make another dance their steps while they stand behind a metaphorical shield, where they can say whatever they want, true or not, and never get any flack about it. It's a one-sided bout with an opponent that stacked the deck from the get go: it's not about getting to the truth, for if he wanted the truth he'd actually do something that requires effort and investment, not fling questions from a safe spot where he himself can't be questioned. It's a game that self-styled intellectuals play, and I personally want nothing of it.

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Sketchbook, Journal, and Ask thread.

Peace

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