Possession before vocality reasons?

[Mirath]

I wonder sometimes as to why people say to usually do vocality before possession. Surely, if a tulpa is sentient, and just can't fully communicate with their host, why should it hold them back from trying possession?

 

Can't possession mean another medium of communication between tulpa and host?

What about tulpas who aren't vocal, and use only tulpish?

 

Or am I taking people's own personal opinions too "as fact"? I'd like to get the viewpoints from the people who did do possession before vocality

[NoneFromHell]

I did possession before vocality, because I figured Alice would've an easy time trying it, since she was already capable of touch imposition on a pretty high level without me doing anything about it. And yes, we used it for communication purposes. (Stretching the finger=Yes, bowing it=no). We still do this for verification purposes, so I know she truly said something. It helps us to deal with doubt regarding her vocality.

 

Well on the other side we had this thread with the "my hand writes evil and satanic messages" stuff, which shows of why people normally don't try this: You have no idea if it is really your tulpa, if you don't get vocal feedback. I think it mainly depends on the development of the tulpa, if you should try this early on, or at a later point in time.

[Guest Anonymous]

Hmm... well, Esterina sure is a lil' ol' blabbermouth, but we can't do possession yet, let alone switching. (Though she did once manage tugging on my finger. A bit.)

And she turned out to be said blabbermouth from the start anyway.

 

But, hmm, if I'd have had the choice as to what to put my time and energy into practicing / training / teaching first...

... I'd have to say vocality, clearly.

 

I simply deem being able to communicate with words much more important than "stunts" like possession or switching.

Which is not to say I think little of either - I really wish we could do that, would be really handy.

 

Can't imagine it's just me who thinks this way, though.

 

 

Greets,

AG

[Sock]

I again have to wonder why folks are so super hyped to do possession. This is coming from a place of ignorance, as I don't see it as neat or charming as others do. Possibly useful, as I've seen in the example of some very fine, stand out examples of thought folk in the community, but not something to dive head first in to.

 

I'm curious really, it seems to be the most popular of practice in the community, and newer users seem to be trying it earlier and earlier.

[Guest Anonymous]

I again have to wonder why folks are so super hyped to do possession. This is coming from a place of ignorance, as I don't see it as neat or charming as others do. Possibly useful, as I've seen in the example of some very fine, stand out examples of thought folk in the community, but not something to dive head first in to.

 

I'm curious really, it seems to be the most popular of practice in the community, and newer users seem to be trying it earlier and earlier.

 

I see a few reasons for this.

 

1) Easy tulpa-existence/sentience-proof. It's a physical phenomenon out of the host's control, and thus a convenient way of "testing" one's tupper.

2) Proxying can be tedious, especially for longer texts... and switching tends to be harder than possession. So possession is sort of a shortcut to having the tupper type stuff itself.

3) No need to go into detail, of course, but it's a very useful thing for host-tulpa-couples.

 

That, and probably a few other reasons I can't think of right now, is what I'd say is the answer to that.

 

 

Greets,

AG

[Evil]

Well, in the end, as someone who can perform the acts of possession and switching with my residents, possession came off to be more of a... 'mentality', let's put it this way. All parties had to accept and admit the 'universal' (only in my own perception, though) that either me, Dimitrov or Blak was in control of their actions. As soon as we had gotten over that acceptance part, we were able to nail down possession, with Dimitrov inspiring us to 'remain determined and put your will into it.' I never had to 'work' on Dimitrov, though, so I don't know much about that. Upon working on Blak, though, I felt like at first, they were very... weak, and feeble, in the sense they lacked capacities, let alone possession seemed to be something... impossible, for them, before vocality. Partly because I had considered that I was working on cognitive functions more than anything, and my endgoal was to create a being that could think, and well, keep Dimitrov company. Enabling that capacity to think, though, also implied a distinction from my, and their own thoughts. I feared imposing my own control, my own will, and more importantly, my own thoughts, on Blak, which would have made things complicated, back then. I understand possession involves dissociation, partly, but with the developing tulpa I was working on, dissociation seemed like something impossible, because it would have been incomplete in the first place. Blak was not born complete, and to this day, is lacking, due to my own neglect and apathy, in some ways, I cannot speak for other tulpas and hosts who put in much more work as I was personally spoonfed the basis that since Dimitrov was there without me allocating any importance or attention to him, things would work out the same. But they did not.

 

I understand @Sock's point of view, additionally, I would have to say that I could see possession, in some ways, making the young tulpa (in my own case, of course, not for anyone else) feel a lot of ambiguity in their own identity. Blak had his own 'body' in the realm of the mindscape, but I would not want to distort that identity with my own features. Of course, this only applies to me.

 

(I'm sorry for this rather long and, partly off-topic post. I'm trying to work on making posts shorter.)

[FadingSpectrum]

Fade: I can see the appeal of possession. AG pointed out a few of the most prominent reasons. Ironically, while it's been fun for us to do, we've started to find imposition about as or more appealing. Possession is just that shiny object that all of the newer 'mancers look at and covet for now - maybe they'll eventually find appeal in seeing their headmates of the headmates own will, imposed in the material world as far as someone so intangible can be.

 

To try and answer the new 'mancers questions;

 

Surely, if a tulpa is sentient, and just can't fully communicate with their host, why should it hold them back from trying possession?

Najere: I can see a couple of reasons why a host might choose to wait to possess. For one thing, we have mentioned the satanic-messages-tulpa-incident. If intrusive thoughts get in while letting a not-terribly-developed tulpa puppet your hand, you don't know what you'll get or if it's your tulpa or not. In the mindscape, it's a little easier to sort it out if intrusive thoughts worm in.

 

Can't possession mean another medium of communication between tulpa and host?

Najere: It certainly can, but it isn't the only medium, as there is tulpish.

 

What about tulpas who aren't vocal, and use only tulpish?

Najere: Then what about them? We have a headmate who gets by only on tulpish, gesturing, and pictures. He seems fine just the way he is. You don't need a voice or possession abilities to communicate.

 

Or am I taking people's own personal opinions too "as fact"? I'd like to get the viewpoints from the people who did do possession before vocality.

Fade: Admittedly, we as a system had everyone vocal before we even knew fronting was possible. There was maybe those few times that Troy fronted without knowing it was fronting, but that was to keep me from doing stupid stuff rather than to communicate with me.

I just want to say, everyone's got a slightly different opinion on everything in here. I think you're doing fine. Listen to a lot of people on a given subject and come to your own conclusions.

[SparrowNR]

Temar:

 

I don't see why possession wouldn't be a means of communication... but I also don't really see why you wouldn't want to try to get them vocal first.

 

See, in our system, we see possession and switching as a tool that the headperson can use to experience the "real" world. Usually, we're sitting back in the wonderland, experiencing it vicariously through our host. Not as fun as getting a chance to move around in it and affect the outside world directly, yeah?

 

When you've lived inside someone's head for a while, you really feel the power behind being able to take your own steps, make a favorite meal, or play a video game... whatever your do when you're switched out. I'll admit that, when I'm driving the body, I get a lot of satisfaction out of getting shit done that my host has been putting off.

 

But that's the thing. For us, switching/possession is about giving the tulpa a tool to explore and feel validated. It''s something that's implemented once we've formed enough of an identity to want to experience the outside world and to express to our host that we'd like to try it.

 

That is all a matter of opinion, though. For us, it was hard to figure out how to possess/switch in the first place--it took our loudest and most self-confident headmate to finally kick Sparrow out of the driver's seat enough to get the concept of dissociating from the body. Maybe other systems have it easier, but that's one reason we're leery about attributing every random twitch and finger wiggle with your tulpa. Not until your tulpa has enough vocality and sense of self to be able to go "Yes, that's me!" anyway.

[Luminesce]

I wonder sometimes as to why people say to usually do vocality before possession.

 

Because there's absolutely no confirmation that you're doing anything. If your tulpa can't even talk yet, you might as well be playing with a ouija board. While it could be your tulpa (or at least be an action that becomes your tulpa), it's just not very efficient. Seems like a basis for misconceptions to me, since someone was just talking about how their non-vocal tulpa named itself and answered questions.

 

Anyways, not the recommended route for the psychological-inclined. If you have more metaphysical beliefs then I suppose you have nothing to lose.

[FallFamily]

[Hail] Well, for the most part in here, vocality came before possession. Only with Se. did it go the other way around, and that is only a technicality. Se. is mute and is happy being mute. She has been around for almost a year and can do many things and assert herself, just she does not speak. A. and E. can see what she thinks and say things for her like that, but that is about as close to vocal as she gets. But vocality is not the end all be all of communication. She can communicate by gestures and presumably by writing inside (never tested it) or by possessing the body and communicating with it.