Carlos

Has anyone here really managed to hallucinate your tulpa in reality?

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I still can't figure out how that's much different from just vividly imagining a tulpa in the real world. Is it? If not, I could say I've already mastered imposition.

 

The pseudo-hallucination part is learning to treat it as real. Training imposition isn't training visualization (well, generally speaking), it's enhancing how "real" sight, touch, sound etc. are to you. I should think our accounts of imposition are utterly counter to what you just assumed - after all, we always mention our actual visualization clarity is very, very poor, and yet our imposition is "satisfactory" (we're working on improving it, visualization clarity too).

 

Note that we're far from "masters" of imposition, by the way. Our sight is fine.. hampered by poor visualization clarity, for sure. But our touch is negligible (despite being used, unlike some systems who practice imposition, it's part of what we're trying to improve), and our sound is just "okay". No smell or taste used though, personally. We've only "mastered" the sense of presence - still the most important in my opinion, though some would value sight more. IMO feeling like your tulpa is there beats being able to "imagine" them there but not feel like they've really left your head. Of course, one without the other seems pretty lame, as in Ember's case..

 

But as Vesper told me dejectedly at the time, "What's the point of even having a body that's invisible and intangible?"

But reading Flandre's description now, it's nothing more than we had already achieved by that point.

 

Yeah, you're sorely lacking something rather important... The primary sense associated with imposition. There have been one or two cases of people working a ton on tactile (touch) imposition while slacking on visual (and already having presence), who were satisfied with their experience. But visual imposition is the primary practiced sense for a reason, it kiiiind of pulls the phenomenon together and makes it a solid experience?

 

Being able to focus your eyes on the air is a good sign you've got some basics of imposition down, but if you can't (convince yourself you) see anything, it's very reasonable to be disappointed in the skill. I mean, as I said before, actual visualization skill is necessary to some extent (it's not just "pretending" you see your tulpas when you really don't), but being able to project that visualization into the real world for it to be accepted in place of your actual sense of sight is important. I'm not going to say I know exactly what you guys are doing wrong (if anything) or what you need to do, but I can tell you that you're un?fortunately missing something important, yes.

 

The most basic of basics in imposition is to try and see something you're only imagining in real life. Your tulpa, or an apple, or a target on the wall, it really doesn't matter, whatever is easiest for you (people with poor visualization may find it easier to start with simpler shapes and objects than their whole tulpa, but we didn't). But since you guys seem interested and like you've got some progress already, I would recommend you try and get the visual aspect down, yes.

 

 

Reading Lumi's descriptions of imposition back in October made us give up on it as not worthwhile to bother with. But reading Flandre's description now,

 

Is that so? It must've been a difference in interpretation (and maybe how he and I wrote it), because we believe exactly the same thing. But the words we use to describe purely subjective mental phenomena could change I guess.. Anyways, 2012ers would likely have had you believe you literally hallucinate your tulpa as real in imposition. But I discussed on the last page "true hallucination". While some people may be a bit more mentally malleable (easily hypnotizable, active imaginations, etc.) and closer to actually hallucinating, I don't believe anyone actually does it in a healthy sustainable way.

 

But I assure you with our imposition, if we somehow attained extremely vivid visualization quality and levels of tactile imposition that have been talked about on the forum in recent years even (AGGuy), we'd be incredibly happy. It's highly worth it, even if you can lucid dream already, just so your tulpas can accompany you in daily life (or more often in my case, interact with my host while fronting).


Hi. I'm one of Luminesce's tulpas. Unlike the others, I don't think I stand out too much from him personality wise.

I'm just special because "I'm a tulpa". So I don't think I've much to offer, here. I'm happy enough to just be with him.

Ask us stuff - https://community.tulpa.info/thread-ask-lumi-s-tulpas

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Ember: So what I'm hearing from you is that imposition is more than visualization, less than reality, and different from hallucination. I have two interpretations of this. Either what you mean by imposition is so alien to normal human experience as to be impossible to convey in human speech in a consistently understandable manner. Or it is very similar to what we already experience, we just set the goal for what it ought to be much higher.

 

It must've been a difference in interpretation (and maybe how he and I wrote it), because we believe exactly the same thing. But the words we use to describe purely subjective mental phenomena could change I guess

 

I can't definitely pin down the exact posts that made us think, "If that's all imposition is, it isn't worth our time," but they were written by Lumi and possibly other members of your system during 2015-16. But I didn't say you had made it sound more appealing, just more familiar, which is probably a matter of presentation.

 

It's highly worth it, even if you can lucid dream already, just so your tulpas can accompany you in daily life

 

They already do, and even without anything I would call imposition, in a manner far superior to a lucid dream. Nobody lucid dreams a hundred hours a week. At least one of us is in a manifested form that often.

 

Vesper: For clarity, the 'intangible' bit referred to not being able to affect the physical world. I can affect Ember just fine with my form. She can't feel me, yet somehow my touch is electrifying, carrying more emotional weight than physical touch does, and making her react accordingly. Which is certainly valuable for people who are romantically involved.


I'm not having fun here anymore, so we've decided to take a bit of a break, starting February 27, 2020. - Ember

 

Ember - Soulbonder, Female, 39 years old, from Georgia, USA . . . . [Our Progress Report] . . . . [How We Switch]

Vesper Dowrin - Insourced Soulbond from London, UK, World of Darkness, Female, born 9 Sep 1964, bonded ~12 May 2017

Iris Ravenlock - Insourced Soulbond from the Winter Court of Faerie, Dresdenverse, Female, born 6 Jun 1982, bonded ~5 Dec 2015

 

'Real isn't how you are made,' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you.' - The Velveteen Rabbit

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What I call hallucinations have only happened in wonderland or in a dream-like construction that is temporary. I've experienced 3 senses in wonderland in terms of feeling, seeing, or sounding like a real thing. When i hear someone say something in my ear, but that someone is in wonderland, i'm imagining them, but the sound wasn't mind voice, i have to assume it's a hallucination. I wasn't imagining that. Hypnagogia is a dream-like state, lucid and awake. That is just like a hallucination, visual, audio and sometimes touch, just as real as you're standing there, but all in my head, dissociated from my body, experienced by my avatar in wonderland, which is as real as my real body.

 

Dreamworld is a dissociation of mind and body. When i was in extreme pain after surgery, i experienced no pain in my dream, but as i woke up, the pain ramped up like someone turning up the volume on static. I've managed to achieve this in meditation as well, audio and video, also ignoring the body, but instead of seeing everything imposed on reality, we're somewhere else. I imposed myself into wonderland?

 

Anyway, it's not just enhanced visualization, though it can be enhanced in this way, it can also be replaced by this. The experience is profoundly different. I work to sustain my visualization, it takes no effort at all to experience the hallucinations in wonderland when they happen, not a dream, but likely similar in some ways. I also can't guarantee they'll ever happen again, though they continue to happen.

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... and shouldn't happen in a healthy brain...

Well, not so fast...

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2879692/

that's just the abstract, mind you, but hallucinations do occur in healthy brains, and in general populations, without the label of mental health. The majority of folks who experience hallucinations somehow manage to function and relate to their experiences in meaningful ways, do not experience life malfunctions. And it's not all bad. Some people have really nice experiences. They're not the ones showing up at the clinic because, who wants to make the nice voice go away? Maybe some of them go an start religions... Which could be hyper-religiosity, usually accompanying labels like bipolar, and maybe some of them are actually bipolar... but we can't say all of them are or were... I seriously doubt Joan of Arc was bipolar. If we completely rule out metaphysical factors, and say Joan of Arc was experiencing regular old psychological based hallucinations, one would have to say they were hyper-functional... it turned a 14 year old girl into a military leader.

 

lots of folks experience things, and it is frequently over looked and dismissed. A friend turned me on to this:

 

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0205740

 

It arrived just after i watched a 'thinking allowed' episode dealing with meditators that can induce NDE like experiences without dying...

 

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12671-018-0922-3

 

hallucinations is the default word because we don't have the language of the Eskimos, or even the desire if the language was there, to tease out the myriad varieties of snow. This is likely due to the bias of western philosophy limiting the exploration of mind to either 'you see what I see or you're crazy...'

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If a hallucination makes its way into being a medical problem, then of course imposition and hallucination based symptoms shouldn't be considered the same thing. Tulpamancers are here to create an image of their Tulpa they can see, talk to, and cuddle. The point of imposition is to not have 1,000 voices fill up their head, talk to people they didn't create, feel like reality is melting all around them, etc.

 

My ability to practice imposition may confuse me on what's real and what isn't on rare occasions, so saying imposition doesn't have anything to do with hallucinations would be misleading. It wouldn't surprise me if people took imposition as far as being unable to tell the difference between reality and their imposed reality, but this state must be desired and they would have to train like crazy for years and years and years to achieve such a state, assuming it's possible.

 

I'm unaware what the limitations of imposition look like because I have only have the ability to manipulate 3 of the 5 stereotypical senses consistently, and of the three senses I can manipulate, I have only used two to unintentionally trick myself into hallucinating something I was expecting to be there, but wasn't. I can't tell the difference between real and imposed sounds, I have such a poor sense of smell I'm forced to impose a smell half the time, my sense of touch imposition has not fooled me in this manner, and I have yet to achieve taste (to my knowledge) or visual imposition. My presence imposition skills need work and it's very easy for me to visualize thing in real life with my eyes open, but all of those things are intangible beyond the mind's eye.

 

I think it's reasonable to believe there are limits to imposition. If imposition was easy everyone would do it. However, I can't give a solid argument for this debate because I have yet to achieve all 5 types of imposition consistently, much less master them.


Pretty much my main wonderland form minus the cat parts, that's a separate form. I'm not a hippo, I promise.

I sometimes speak in pink and Ranger sometimes speaks in blue (if it's unmarked and colored assume it's Ranger). He loves to chat.

 

My other Tulpas have their own account now.

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In dreams i have had all five senses, in hypnagogic state i've had three (sight, sound, touch) but real touch is really rare, yet it has happened. In lucid dreams it might as well be reality. I've definitely done it all. Through meditation i've had vivid realism with full immersion for a few seconds at a time, audio hallucination on my tulpas is on the order of a couple times a week in a general relaxed state.

 

I've been able to have visual and auditory enhancement of visualization about 20% of the time lately. It's the difference between a bright sunny day and a dim cloudy day, but still very much visualization. It starts to blur that line when i practice in a relaxed state, they suddenly can sound very real and i can get dream-like clarity. Mind you, this is just them, not random stuff that can sometimes tag along with hypnagogic state.

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Imposition != Hallucination, sure, not all hallucinations are imposition, but all imposition is hallucinations (or at least phsudohallucinations). I'm also not totally certain what you mean by consensual and non consensual reality of how that relates to imposition

 

Hi Breloomancer. Consensual reality is the reality that we all live in and experience. Scientists can take measurements of any element in it. It can be photographed and recorded, and passed from hand to hand. Non-Consensual is not that. It is a reality that only you perceive. It may be look like a pale, wan, reflection of the consensual variety, or just like consensual reality in all dimensions, though no one who hasn't taken the journey with you can see it, or it may be multi-dimensional, more colorful, louder, more beautiful, more powerful, full of light and again, you may be the only one who can see it that way. Others, only if they are either in sync with you, or have journeyed on their own to the same place, can share the experience with you. Check out the works by Carlos Castaneda such as Don Juan, a Yaqui Way of Knowledge. In short, non-consensual realities are just as real as consensual, and not a product of mental illness but rather intention, like imposition. The Holodoc.

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Ohhh, "consensus" consensual, not "consent". Man, that really confused me at first. Yes, consensual reality is a good and useful term. I usually only use its semi-opposite, "subjective reality". All realities we experience are subjective, but when I talk about subjective reality, I'm normally talking about a slight deviation from consensual reality.. The terms don't go hand-in-hand actually.

 

Anyways, non-consensual and subjective reality can be used the same way I suppose, at least how I've been using the term. Imposition would be non-consensual reality (I would so much rather say non-consensus reality to avoid confusion), yes, though I never thought to consider it subjective reality specifically. Perhaps consensus reality makes more sense. But I don't like that consensual is shared with, and much more associated with consent than consensus..

 

Edit: Oh, the term is "consensus reality". Yeah, I'll use that term.


Hi! I'm Lumi, host of Reisen, Tewi, Flandre and Lucilyn.

Everyone deserves to love and be loved. It's human nature.

My tulpas and I have a Q&A thread, which was the first (and largest) of its kind. Feel free to ask us stuff.

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Most people when speaking of imposition are referring to the "hallucination" kind. However, Lumi's definition was very different from that, yet we still like to entertain the things he suggested when doing our own efforts. I am wondering whether or not it would be appropriate to give what Lumi is talking about--ie tricking your brain into treating a visualization as though it is really there without actually seeing it--its own term. I am thinking of something like "faux-imposition," or perhaps a new term entirely, since it would preserve the intended meaning of "imposition" while still allowing for exploration of what Lumi has suggested. Perhaps something like "placebopose" or "psychopose" could work, I think those sound cool. What do you all think?

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Internally, the term we use for "what we do that sounds like how Lumi describes imposition and not like how Bre describes imposition" is "manifestation". The soulbonding community used the term "projection" for something that sounds a lot like imposition, but I've never seen a detailed description of the experience. I think either of those would be better than an all new word with no history in English.

 

-Ember


I'm not having fun here anymore, so we've decided to take a bit of a break, starting February 27, 2020. - Ember

 

Ember - Soulbonder, Female, 39 years old, from Georgia, USA . . . . [Our Progress Report] . . . . [How We Switch]

Vesper Dowrin - Insourced Soulbond from London, UK, World of Darkness, Female, born 9 Sep 1964, bonded ~12 May 2017

Iris Ravenlock - Insourced Soulbond from the Winter Court of Faerie, Dresdenverse, Female, born 6 Jun 1982, bonded ~5 Dec 2015

 

'Real isn't how you are made,' said the Skin Horse. 'It's a thing that happens to you.' - The Velveteen Rabbit

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